He signed an executive order on Thursday, saying violence had reached “intolerable levels”.
The sanctions will block the individuals from accessing all US property and other assets.
Violence in the West Bank has spiked since Hamas’s 7 October attack on Israel.
Everyone here should know, this is due to you and the conversations you’ve been having, media you’ve been supporting, and any actions you’ve taken to directly protest, letter write, etc.
Activism works. Being annoying af works. Simply changing the media you consume has an impact. Conservatives get what they want from their elected officials because they demand it. You too can demand things of your elected officials (so long as you can hold them to consequence, ie, the problem with bnmw).
Let’s not forget, this is exactly how we ended segregation in the US and Apartheid in South Africa.
Activism works. Let your voice be heard.
This is also why bad actors fill sites like reddit with bots, to try and control the public narrative.
But bots can’t vote. Bots can’t demonstrate. Bots can’t boycott.
And also kudos to Lemmy and Lemmy mods for keeping this place relatively free from bots.
And also kudos to Lemmy and Lemmy mods for keeping this place relatively free from bots.
I wouldn’t count on that. I’m a dev, and I don’t really know how you reliably do that. You can catch low hanging fruit, but it doesn’t take much to evade.
This is due to Biden needing to go to Michigan, with its huge arabic population. His campaign people wanted to avoid loud and awkward protests from members of his own party, so they threw a tiny bone that they knew would make a big headline splash.
I hate to be this cynical, but listening to his campaign managers making the rounds on the political insider podcasts… they are overwhelmingly “professional” and entirely inauthentic.
Even if biden himself is earnest, this campaign is shaping up to have all the stage managed authenticity of Hillary’s 2016 run.
I’m worried.
Lol if he comes to Michigan he’s just gonna hide himself at the Ford plant where they get a select few line workers to attend his speech so they can post it on social media.
Dearborn would eat him alive if he so much as so stepped outside the property.
No one’s gonna buy up this executive order.
Unless you’re extinction rebellion and then everyone hates you anyway.
Wah but being mean to biden spurs voter apathy wah
I suppose better than nothing but ‘better than nothing’ is a low fuckin bar for intervention in ongoing genocide. Unless there’s reprecussions on the state of Israel, who condones and empowers settelers, this seems like sanctioning the Houthis while simultaneously arming Iran.
It’s a start.
It has been political suicide in the past to criticize Isreal. They are also an incredibly important strategic ally in the region, both militarily and commerce.
This move shows that the US is potentially willing to move away from unconditional support, which could be devastating to Isreal.
So, while the actual scope of the sanctions themselves is unimpressive, the meaning behind it is significant.
Sure, you’re not wrong, but I’m really really tired of getting ‘it’s a start’ action on issues like this and the irreversible change of the climate. There’s a very real timer ticking on both these issues if nothing changes and based on history I’m really skeptical were getting anything but another ‘its a start’ on some other small facet of this issue, ad nauseam until it’s not an election year.
Skepticism is always healthy, but try not to wade too far into cynicism.
International relations are very complicated, and even if it would be satisfying to have fast and heavy responses, I can also understand the cautious approach in this case. As you say, it’s an election year. It would not do Palestinians much good to have a reactionary response poison the well, just to the Republicans win all levels of government and screw up the region far worse, in addition to abandoning Ukraine.
Millions of them have been displaced. They’re starving and dying every day. Disease is rampant. Tens of thousands are dead. They’re running out of hospitals to use. Genocide isn’t the kind of thing you can do a “wait and see” approach for. I get what you’re saying, but people need to keep pressuring him. I hope no one takes this small victory as an excuse to stop.
Yep. I agree, the pressure needs to say on. And more importantly, we need to praise this measure. His administration needs the feedback that withholding support and starting sanctions is a popular policy.
What we don’t need is a tantrum that not enough is being done, dissent that can be weaponized by the Right to convince people to waste their vote on not-Biden.
Agreed! It’s like training a dog with pets lol.
Yeah, the benefit of the slow and steady approach is for Americans, not for Palestinians.
We have to remember, those people aren’t our friends. They’re known to chant “Death to America”. They include the kind of terrorists who would commit the October 7th attacks, and most Palestinians support that kind of terrorism.
We want to stop the genocide while keeping Israel as an ally against both terrorism and Iran, who is currently attacking any Western shipping through the Suez Canal.
I think we have a lot more room to do that, absolutely. It’s a bad situation, and we have to understand our role in it. But our role can certainly be less hard-lined than supporting genocide.
We have to remember, those people aren’t our friends. They’re known to chant “Death to America”.
There are Americans who yell almost the same thing to other Americans, ie: anti-abortionists, anti-queer, racists, neo-nazis, Proud Boys, the kind of people who supported and engaged in insurrection, etc etc etc. They may use different words but the intent is identical.
For anyone not reading any further…this is a whole total of FOUR illegal settlers being banned. FOUR.
Firstly, positive to see more criticism and friction between Israel and US officials, and that resulting in unilateral action against extreme elements of Israeli society. I recognize that international and domestic politics are hard to balance, and its campaign season.
But holy shit this solves nothing. “It’s a start” certainly, but there shouldn’t even be settlers. Oslo II very clearly, with lines on the map agreed to by both sides, set out that the West Bank and Gaza is Palestinian, for Palestinians.
At what point does the US alliance with Israel cost us more than it’s worth, especially when this unlimited support is directly harmful to other regional allies like Jordan or Egypt?
I’m sure that behind closed.doors, we are rapidly approaching that point.
Interesting how you used Oslo II and not the failed camp David summit options that Israel tried. Palestine is in an even worse state than it was back then yet still fighting for the same thing.
You also bring this up without any thought of the Abraham accords which is more interesting. Israel might be digging it’s own grave but the US needs them as they are a strategic ally deep in the heart of the OIC block. So people shouldn’t expect the US’s involvement other than support.
Oslo II was signed by the PLO on behalf of the Palestinian people. It’s the most recent document that both sides agreed to, dealing with partition of land. Israel has failed to do what it agreed to and slowly cede back the West Bank entirely - they have done the opposite and taken more land.
Camp David accords was between Israel and Egypt, decided without the Palestinians, and condemned by the UN and rejected as illegitimate by;
- Resolution 33/28
- Resolution 34/70
- Resolution 34/65 B
And yes the rapprochement with the Saudis is a big development towards normalization and stability for Israel, and cements alliances between the region - but Israeli realpolitik is fucking up the juggling act US diplomats are doing.
Sorry I forgot the part where PLO leader Arafat refusing any concessions in camp David was Egypt’s doing. I forgot that the reason the second intifada and Hamas uprising was because of pesky old Egypt not negotiating for them or that the UN called it illegitimate. The part where the entire world was puzzled why Palestinians refused any offers that apparently Egypt was doing, very weird.
Arafat wasn’t a part of the Camp David Accords in 1978, you’re confused with the 2000 Camp David summit.
That 2000 summit fell apart because of a loggerhead over what is fundamental to both sides, and an Israeli negotiation redline hypocrisy - right of return. Arafat may well have been an Arab nationalist who wanted the three no’s forever and wouldn’t sign anything - but then why engage and negotiate at all? Concessions were offered from on both sides but Israel refused to permit those in the diaspora to return to their land, all while funding birthright trips for foreign Jews.
Egypt has a viable country and government, and got the canal back and A SHITLOAD of land Israel had taken. Palestinians were being offered what the US and Canada gave the First Nations after we broke treaty after treaty.
Ah shit you got me i got the words swapped. I meant the summit being the last attempt of a treaty that Arafat didnt even bother trying to negotiate. What i was trying to say was there was an attempt for land swaps and a passage way for peace but the PLO captain shat his pants and decided he wants murder on his hands. Oslo II might have been the last official treaty but there have been attempts to get peace and a 2 state solution since then.
The only reason Egypt even has the Sinai back is because Israel offered it back as a sign of peace after it was captured. Palestinians have nothing to offer. Not even the Egyptians want them back in the Sinai now.
I meant the summit being the last attempt of a treaty that Arafat didnt even bother trying to negotiate.
@febra@lemmy.world has addressed this point very nicely in a post which unfortunately is no longer readable. So allow me to quote it because it shows very well how insulting, I’d say on purpose, the whole proposal of Israel was. They just wanted something so outlandish that it was refused outright so they can later say “See we tried but they don’t want to talk!!!”. The whole tactic is very similar to Austria-Hungary’s ultimatum to Serbia which they specifically worded so Serbia had to refuse it or stop being a sovereign state.
Anyway here’s the post of @febra@lemmy.world. It’s a bit long but definitely worth the read to get a better understanding of this very complex situation:
I am sorry to tell you this, but you definitely ought look deeper into the peace accords as they were discussed at the time. Especially the ones at Camp David which were supposed to be the most fruitious and the ones Palestinians “threw out the door”. The Oslo accords were more of a guideline than a clear set of instructions. They were a very loose set of vague directions both sides were supposed to go down on. Before that there were no other concrete accords. One would argue that the Camp David Summit was the closest both sides ever got to making peace. So let’s take a look at that one and use it as a good compass in this discussion.
Palestinians were supposed to:
- be completely demilitarized
- give Israel the right to send troops to Palestine in case of any emergency (what constitutes as an emergency was never defined)
- ask Israel for approval for every diplomatic alliance Palestine would ever make with other countries
- have Israeli military bases installed in Palestinian territory
- give the Israeli military complete control of their airspace
- have israeli military outposts be installed on the border between Palestine and Jordan for a temporary amount of time
- give Israel temporary control over Palestinian border crossings (without having a specified timeframe)
- give up 10% of the West Bank, the most fertile land in the West Bank, for 1% territorial gains of desert land near the Gaza strip (the land that would be conceded included symbolic and cultural territories such as the Al-Aqsa Mosque, whereas the Israeli land conceded was unspecified)
- Israel would keep parts of the West Bank under temporary occupation, without a timespan being given
- What constitutes the West Bank was to be defined by Israel and not by international law. Israel defined West Bank as being the internationally recognized West Bank minus all the settlements they had at the time.
As you can see, all of these concessions would never amount to a completely sovereign Palestinian state, and as a result of that these talks failed in the end. To me, it looks like they were designed to fail from the get-go. Nonetheless, they did spawn new discussions and as a result of said discussion the Taba negotiations were born. With that being said, these concessions were in no way, shape, or form popular in Israel (only 25% of the Israeli public thought his positions on Camp David were just right as opposed to 58% of the public that thought Ehud Barak compromised too much). The Israeli prime minister at the time, Barak, facing elections, suspended the talks since it greatly affected his popularity in Israel. As a result of trying to broker a peace deal with Palestine, even a very bad one that was meant to fail as it was, he failed to get re-elected. The highly unbalanced concessions were already considered to be too much by Israelis.
Ehud Barak was from the Labour governments you were talking about, and this is the best Israel could ever come up with.
Trying to paint this situation as it being a level field where both sides did the same amount of wrongdoing is not a fair representation of the history of the peace process.
Since the most promising talks ever, the Camp David Summit, Israel has allowed over 750k settlers to move into the West Bank. A military regime has been installed and forced upon the occupied population contrary to international law. If getting the 30k settlers out of Gaza in 2005 was hard enough and almost caused an uproar inside the IDF, getting 750k settlers out of the West Bank will be straight up impossible without a major conflict.
There will never be two states and I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that this was in majority the doing of the Palestinians. We should talk a good look at all these facts when we start discussing this conflict and use them as a compass.
You can read more on that on Wikipedia if you’re interested in all the details. If wikipedia isn’t a good enough source, there is a great book on this subject by a german professor specializing on the conflict between Israel and Palestine.
I absolutely don’t think any of these propositions are outlandish or even remotely insulting. This was a hindsight problem. Given that we are now 20 years into the future, Palestinians would be stupid to not agree to these if it were proposed again. But that won’t happen because of a multitude of reasons.
Again, all I was trying to say was that Oslo II was not the last time there was an attempt at a 2 state solution. Saying “take back to green line” is kind of dumb to me because that’s no longer in scope of a solution.
Thank you for this comprehensive explanation of the situation.
Not even the Egyptians want them back in the Sinai now.
That is an extremely problematic view. It reminds me of the Évian Conference where Hitler was arguing that “no one wants the jews” since the US, UK, and other countries refused to take in german jewish refugees, and thus “the final solution” was spawned. It’s an extremely dehumanising view that ended up in genocide. Please refrain from repeating such opinions.
Besides that, the Palestinians have a long history in Palestine. I don’t understand what you’re hinting at with “wanting them back”. Back where? They already have a home.
You misconstrued what I said. I meant they don’t have anything to offer either Israel nor Egypt. Even if they wanted to negotiate again, they don’t have anything going for them. Don’t twist my words to fit some other topic.
Their shit disturbing at every opportunity is probably creating more problems than supporting them fixes. Every time Mossad goes off page and assassinates someone else, they’re making more enemies.
We know it’s because if there was ever peace accidentally made in that area, Israel would be out of a job and hence the money, so there’s no fucking way they’re going to let that happen. So destabilizing the area is in Israel’s best interests.
Huh??? How does Israel lose money if there was peace??? I am curious to hear your opinion on what kind of revenues makes up Israel’s GDP and where instability of the Middle East fits into that.
The money the US sends?
So the usual $5B in aid that Israel gets. You know Israels GDP was close to $600B last year right?
They had a budget surplus of less than $5b least year, so that money still makes a difference. Not sure if it’s just the usual $5b either right now, I didn’t go digging hard for it, but the data I saw for for much aid the US sends Israel was from before Oct.
I think you have a misunderstanding on how these funds work
Now do the same with the Israeli state
Yeah, what good are sanctions if the Israeli government is still giving them US weapons to continue terrorising Palestinians in the West bank?
It’s a warning shot.
Good thing we’re doing warning shots over a 100 days in, after Gaza has been turned into rubble and like 2% of the population has died.
Geopolitics involving nuclear armaments happens slowly, unfortunately. It’s a nasty situation, but the political will is shifting away from Israel.
The US can’t unilaterally stop supporting a long time ally without undermining the trust the rest of our Allie’s have in the US- and by extension NATO as a whole. At least not without taking small steps at a time
“The indivuals”. Four. Four guys. That’s all. Of all the Israeli illegal settlers, a whole total of FOUR are getting banned from buying US properties…which I doubt they wanted to, anyway.
thanks for the clarification as my country is banned from clicking on that link and I’m too lazy to shit my pants on another website.
Even if it’s just lip service to get votes from the left, I’m happy to see the narrative manifesting itself in the white house. they obviously know that voters want.
unfortunately by the time any serious policy would be enacted, Palestine will be gone.
Biden makes sure that four illegal colonists cannot go to America and must stay there to colonize Palestine!He has Michigan in the bag now. All those Arabs can see how strong this man is.
A reminder that all Israeli settlements are illegal.
Way to little, but at least something.
Glad to see he’s starting to feel the pressure! That aside, wake me up when he sanctions Israel, which not-so-subtly supports these settlers.
He doesn’t even need to sanction them. Stop sending them weapons.
Edit: I mean, I guess sanctions would be nice too, but stopping the weapons transfers should be the bare minimum.
That too 👆
That’s gonna be a lot of pressure huh? They banned…four dudes. I’m not even joking, the ban is for FOUR guys.
Doing literally anything at all is a divergence from previous policy. How do you explain it?
Cuz it looks to me like Biden trying to throw his electoral base a bone so he doesn’t lose.
He won’t.
The point is to do as little as possible and still be able to say he tried.
Make a couple of ineffectual executive orders and then send more bombs to kill innocent brown children.
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What happens if one of the settlers becomes PM of Israel? Does the US change its tune?
Remember, in the case of India, the current PM of India was banned from entering the US for almost a decade. Now, we bend over backwards for him.
Seeing as Ben-Gvir isn’t mentioned at all, I think you already have your answer.
The funny thing is with Modi, there was a huge petition to get him banned and they still overturned it like nothing just because he became PM.
Same story with the Phillipines I think
Gvir is already in the government and Biden is supporting him. Nothing will change.
how do you sanction “settlers” exactly
History repeats itself. War crimes are being committed and other countries try to wait it out with pointless bureaucracy bullshit.
Meanwhile innocent children suffer and die every day.
Biden (I hope): “Gee, after the election, I don’t have to worry about voters thinking I’m ‘throwing Israel under the bus’, and can do whatever I want. Gee, will I still be a zionist? Or will I follow what my party wants me to do? Here is a hint, Israel.”
I think i’m going to call this hopium
Because what reason at all does he have to challenge the USA’s biggest defense partner and international asset?
Already ignoring the fact that his party is also backed by zionists lol.
The sanctions block the individuals from accessing all US property and other assets.
They also prevent them from using the American financial system.
I wonder what percentage of the Israeli settlers are using the US financial system or even own US property.
The wording is also a bit vague, Do the bombs that we also sent Israel count as our property. Or are they officially Israel’s?
Also, who are “the individuals?” who invaded the west bank? Do we have group names?
They’re 20 year olds and teenagers who probably don’t have any Israeli assets let alone American. They’re from the 0.01% of violent settlers with no clout who did something politically inconvenient enough to actually get arrested by Israel. One of them beat up a liberal Jewish activist so that’s why they got in trouble. One of them was from the Huwara pogrom attack where high-ranking Israeli government officials and the IDF encouraged and facilitated it, and he’s a random loser they arrested to deflect attention.
The US picked some people to sanction that Israel has already deemed expendable, and they’re people Israel agrees did something bad, so Biden isn’t offending Israel by listening to any Palestinian accusation against an Israeli.
Do the bombs that we also sent Israel count as our property. Or are they officially Israel’s?
They’re Israel’s. They bought them from us. Doesn’t matter that they bought them with money we gave them.
now boycott and divest
Holy shit Biden sanctioned 4 PEOPLE let’s go dude. He’s really showing his massive power.
Don’t be shitty because the progress isn’t as much as you want.
It’s extremely surprising that this happened at all, so any progress is a good thing.
This isn’t progress, this is a scam. The four people in question are already in trouble with the IDF or police, they’re basically just some random street thugs.
It’s literally just a piss poor attempt to gain support for elections, nothing more. They pull this typa crap all the time in every 3rd world country so its not exactly new or surprising.
West Bank settlers aren’t immigrating to the US or holding US assets, this is just a political move to appease low information voters.
