An important population we need to increase is ethical landlords.
And by ethical, I mean former.
The only good landlord is a former landlord.
I have a pretty good landlord. This isn’t an ACAB situation. The problem is the market, IMO, if not capitalism entirely; even if you got rid of landlords (made it illegal to have tenants), housing prices would still be too high to buy a house. Supply-side or demand-side economics are the only viable solution under capitalism.
Yeah, and there will always be a demand for temporary housing. Even if every person has property, tourists need places to stay, you’d need a place to stay if your house is leveled by a natural disaster, it doesn’t make sense to jump through all the hoops of property ownership if you just want to be closer to mom’s nursing home in her final months, etc.
The problem isn’t filling that need, it’s making a profit off it.
under capitalism, almost nothing happens without a profit. If you’re so sure the problem isn’t capitalism, please explain to me how exactly you’re imagining things should work.
I don’t know how you got ‘this person is pro-capitalism’ from me saying ‘profit is the problem’.
I said:
The problem is the market, IMO, if not capitalism entirely
but it seemed to me that you were disagreeing with my post when you said “the problem is making a profit off it.” I could have misunderstood, and you were agreeing?
You think capitalism is the problem, yes? If so, we are in agreement.
We could still have great property managers without landlords. Then you wouldn’t even need to be thankful that your lord happens to be one of the benevolent ones.
All landlords are bastards
…no, that’s just what I said is not the case. You must have misread?
Looking at the instances you two are from I feel like I’m taking crazy pills 🫨
Sorry, I forgot to tell you that today is opposite day.
You sound like a slave complimenting his owner for being such a kind-hearted masser who treats him good
oh that’s so sweet, you think i’m naïve <3
Blaming the landlord is more of a meme. Don’t take it seriously
that’s excellent
Funny how if you remove all landlords no one loses their home.
People who can no longer afford their mortgages would disagree with you.
Edit: I’ve absolutely no fucking idea why you all think I mean landlords here. You do realise normal people have mortgages right? And if you don’t pay them, the bank take your house and make you homeless?
People who can no longer afford their mortgages because they suddenly can’t leech of off working people can go fuck themselves.
“There’s a great place to go when you’re broke: to work!”
- big time landlord and big time conservative asshole (but I repeat myself) Dave Ramsey.
Luckily all these rugged individual landlords already know exactly where their boot straps are! Right??
Is he hiring? Is he willing to pay a reasonable living wage?
If not he should STFU.
reasonable living wage?
Whoaaaaa hold on there Chairman Adolf Stalin!! Are you asking him to stifle his innovation??
Ban landlord culture and property prices drop.
Kinda sucks for those already with a mortgage. Defending rental culture because someone might lose out now only guarantees that an ever increasing majority lose out in the future.
It’s not just landlords pushing it up.
The constrained supply, the low interest rates, the greedy banks pushing bigger and bigger mortgages, government “help to buy” schemes which appear to be a way to help people buy homes, but in effect just pushes the price ever higher…
The centralisation of jobs in certain areas. We have the internet. This could have practically solved the property crisis on it’s own, along with overloaded transport systems and pollution, but rich people were losing too much money, so back to the office, plebs.
Constrained supply
But there are empty properties now. There is supply. House prices are too high for all of the property to be affordable. That is because property as an appreciating investment is valuable. You can only live in one house, to buy multiple properties and have that appreciated investment, you are a landlord.
Low interest rates
allow you to buy a property. They allow people investing in housing to buy many. It results in the above.
Banks pushing bigger mortgages
Sure
Help to buy
Allows affordable housing to become an investment. See my first point.
Rich people were losing to much money
Yep, some of those people were landlords who were finding city prices dropping.
Clearly landlord culture isn’t the “only” problem. But fuck me it’s a big part of the issue.
Yeah it would suck to have my house drop in value while I still owe the bank so much money, but anyone who isn’t willing to suck it up for the obvious greater good is an asshole.
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I and many working people like me can’t afford a mortgage EVER because all of the market is bought up for renting, so they would become just like me, except I’d have a real fucking job
They should find a job
Fuck landlords bitch.
Why would mortgage prices go up without landlords?
So? Then they shouldn’t have gotten real estate to begin with if they can’t afford a house. A person who relies on renting property to make a living are leaches living off the working class.
You do realise normal people have mortgages, right? I don’t know why everyone has just assumed I’m taking about landlords here…
Landlording isn’t a real job. It provides no value to society.
Landlords can change that by simply changing businesses.
what mortgages? shelter must be a right. people shouldn’t be allowed to own other people’s homes. everyone should be provided with housing by paying taxes or being covered by social aid systems.
“Concerns” like this is why the housing situation will never be fixed. Guess what? Fixing the housing crisis will always means stopping it from being a profitable investment.
I think it can be generally said that the US and their success stories are a force for the bad in the world.
All the high profile multi-billion dollar tech companies to arise in the last 15-20 years have been some form or other of using technology to skirt existing regulations and to move the risk and expense onto others.
PayPal, Uber, Airbnb, DoorDash, you name it, their “innovations” weren’t any kind of innovation in technology, they were innovations in creative ways to make something 5% more convenient at the expense of making it 500% worse all round for everyone.
Get rid of air bnb and similar. It’s caused a ton of problems in Japan as well with people buying whole buildings and pricing out existing tenants. There are legal protections, but most tenants, particularly elderly, don’t know about them and either pay new increased prices by the new landlord or move out. The government enacted laws requiring a minpaku (think lodging/hotel) license and putting maxes on time, but tons of people still run illegal ones.
A lot of those people seem to be Chinese investors running them off of other sites which has furthered anger and xenophobia against all foreigners. One of the parties that skyrocketed in the most recent election wants to strip property rights from all foreigners and not just investment properties but ALL properties. It’s a reaction to getting priced out and the government not doing shit about it. Granted, there are tons of other problems (prices rising weekly or monthly, wages not keeping up at all with inflation and rising prices, and overtourism more generally), but this is low-hanging fruit.
As someone who just bought a house last year (on the market for over a year in the countryside with farmland for which I had to interview and get permits to buy and use), and volunteers in his community, this is terrifying to me. I had to go through tons of extra hoops just for being a foreigner to begin with and now, thanks to fuckhead illegal hotel owners and bad policy, now lots of people want to take the one little bit of stability I finally felt.
thanks to fuckhead illegal hotel owners
Wrong fight, wrong enemies
I know at least one city in France taking measures to severely limit Airbnb, because it’s becoming a ghost town and people who actually work there can’t find anywhere to live. The housing situation in the area is terrible.
Good for them. I already can’t stand “professional” landlords that get into the business of shitting over places people need to live to maximise profit. Those who are taking over those spaces to turn them into fake hotels without the constraints are the lowest of that scum.
Governments let them do it.
I wonder why we pay taxes to people who actively work against common interests for the benefit of the few.
Build. More. Homes.
We used to have enough, and then in the late 70s, early 80s they decided that if they didn’t build enough, then they could make housing scarce and therefore more valuable. A big long-con, 40 years in the making.
Housebuilders would make more profit per home. Homeowners would have more wealth (even if they can’t access it). Inheritance taxes could take more of a bite. Landlords could charge more. Retirements could be funded entirely by buying 2-3 houses and renting them out, and then cash in later on the full value of those homes when they’d gone up by double the interest rates.
They don’t have to be amazing homes. They don’t need an acre of land to sit on. They don’t need three bedrooms. Kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, living room. Affordable on a quarter of a single person’s minimum wage income.
We already have enough homes, it’s just that too many of them are owned by Black Rock and similar companies.
I thought investment companies didn’t own that many, but just enough to bump the price too high. Like they influenced the market. Now developers are building in the hopes they get bought by the investment guys.
you just have to make sure that the new houses aren t bought by landlords…
You have to realise that landlords aren’t the plague. They’re the buboes. A symptom.
If you can take your spare money (a concept from days gone by, I know), buy a house for X, rent it out for Y a month, then finally sell it in 20 years for Z, and be 99.99% guaranteed to make more money from it than you can from pretty much any other source, then why wouldn’t you?
Remove the incentive for that (homes that don’t go up by more than the inflation rate), there will be no need for them to exist.
But in any case, the size of the building projects required would likely be government level anyway, and they can be the “landlord” for anyone not wanting to buy. This was called council houses in the olden days, before Maggie Thatcher killed that.
one home per person, no homes owned by businesses
apartment buildings become condos, each unit owned by a person to do with as they please
woodchip any business owners who fight back against the new regulation
spare money
I hate you
I realize that not all landlords are to blame, just the greedy ones. There are way more of those.
While I understand your point, I don’t think I fully agree with it. If house prices are connected to inflation, what is there to stop somebody from buying a house and renting it out. The rent money is used to buy a second house and so on. The price of houses will go up, and so will the rent. But the houses themselves were bought at a lower price, so house prices going up would not have any influence on the landlord. In the meantime the rent keeps going up, reultiyin more profit in the end.
Now of there would be a taxation based on actual worth of a person. And the amount of taxation is based on the minimal income in a country…
Maybe a bit farfetched and I do not know if I explain it in a way that I get my idea across.
If house prices were directly connected to inflation, there would be no issue.
But they run far above inflation. This is what gets a pack of landlords involved.
There’s a point where putting your money into a basic stock market tracker gives a better return than landlording. That’s when they go and do that instead. It’s a lot less up front investment, and a lot less risk.
It’s mostly the spiralling house prices that attracts the landlord class, not the rent. The house is making money even if there’s nobody in it. Rent is just the icing on the cake. Right now they just cannot lose.
The landlords aren’t doing anything wrong, if the market price is too high you have to increase supply it’s that easy.
They certainly aren’t doing anything unexpected.
But, the word “wrong” carries an implication of moral judgment, and most people here are gonna disagree with you on that one.
That is one of the reasons conservatives are so gung-ho on rugged individualism and individual responsibility while being against regulation. In public they get to tell supporters that they are all strong smart boys who can make their own decisions, while also implying that “others” in disadvantaged groups are in their situations due to character flaws and subhuman status. In private they get to ruin the world and apparently prey on children pretty often because the people impose no rules on them.
Large numbers of individuals are easy for them to manipulate. Written laws and regulations are much less so, even though not impervious.
Edit to add:
This whole “they are behaving as expected == they are not doing anything wrong” attitude from the right quickly morphs into “they are a business, not a charity” and other similar sayings.
That flawed reasoning plus a few more leaps in logic then leads to seeing profitability as an indicator of morality.
And even THAT infiltrates personal lives. Resting for mental & physical health instead of building a skill or starting a side hustle? Laziness! Wasted hours of your life!
Spend some time and money on a hobby that brings joy to your life and gives you a reason to exercise? Wasteful! Selfish! Foolish! Just think of what that money could have done in the market h while you chose a better hobby that could scale into something profitable!!
Whoa whoa hold the fuck up. What do you mean that you intentionally lose money on your hobbies!? What kind of god-fearing red-blooded american just tosses aside the Rules of Acquisition so carelessly?
ethically wrong or legally wrong?
I mean my statement is pretty broad, there might be some landlords somewhere who do things that are either ethically or legally wrong. But in general they aren’t doing either. Landlords are people who invest their money and time in housing and just like any investment they want it to be profitable. If it’s too profitable it’s not their fault, it’s that we have to build more houses, have better transportation and better public housing to ease off pressure on the private market, not kill all landlords.
Your neighbor was your friend… Until they sold out. …
Aww that’s so sweet. They really enjoyed their stay at the AirBnB.
/s
I get that people want to see regulations on landlords, etc, but naysayers here don’t seem to have considered that it might be easier to convince would-be tourists that a place isn’t a relaxing holiday destination than it is to get a majority of the right level of politicians to agree to draft complex legislation in opposition from monied and powerful capitalist interests. Targeting tourists is totally fair game and good strategy, that doesn’t rule out pursuing regulations as well.
It really baffles me that it’s legal to own a house
You mean like as opposed to a government assigned home?
You can’t really live without air, food and a home, it’s a basic need, it should not be something you can horder like a dragon and deny the access to others
It’s very interesting this binary thinking in terms of good vs evil, private own vs government own, it’s very hard to think outside bourgeoisie ideology?
You said a lot of stuff but I don’t think any of it would really help someone who isn’t on the same page as you already
I don’t think I said anything too complicated to understand, we have a problem, people starve but there’s a lot of food, people are homeless but there’s a lot of houses
People normalize food been trashed while other people starve, this is not normal, and we all know what need to be done, this system does not work for the majority of the people
I know what you said; all I’m saying is that your original comment didn’t account for the audience well. I think both of your comments (this and the former) are great and informative, but the one I’m replying to now is much better for someone that isn’t already in the know on the general concepts. I appreciate the effort you put into them both :)
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What I don’t get is why the people of Barcelona want tourists out. That’s such a dumb knee-jerk reaction imho. Tourism is not the problem. In fact it’s a major revenue for the city. They could use it to build affordable housing for locals. The government could put a cap on rent and similar restrictions on whatever Airbnb arrangements. If it’s not more profitable to give out one’s property for short term rentals then the trend will fade. If someone can explain the current anti-tourism stance as opposed to a push for alternative measures I’d appreciate it.
Because the people making money are not the people living there.
I’m guessing all those things that could and should happen are not happening because of greed.
The government could put a cap on rent and similar restrictions on whatever Airbnb arrangements.
Not easy. They tried but don’t have the authority. I think they managed for home long term rentals but not as aggressive as before.
The revenue from tourism is limited to the city. Most rentals are owned by large foreign companies, so profit goes away. Clearly not enough to pay for extra housing (one airbnb house taxes can’t pay for a full new house).
Also, they are pushing away people who lived there, as the neighborhoods are focusing on tourists more and more (again, foreign investment firms who don’t spend back in the city).
I used to live 25 min walking to Sagrada Familia. 8 years ago there were usually no tourists or stores focused on tourists. Now it’s a very common place for tourists to stay, and prices show it.
Hello,
Not sure if you’re still in Barcelona, but there is !barcelona@piefed.social
Not anymore, recently left. Honestly tourism and it’s many side effects was one of the motivating factors.
I definitely get that. Are you still in Spain or have you moved abroad ?
Tourism is cancer
Shouldnt have sold your home to a parasite corporation then, doesnt sound very anarchist to me. Then gets angry and enshittifies their city with spraypaint, people from barca aren’t the brightest bunch.
Are you lobotomised? Obviously the author doesn’t own the house duh
They banned airbnb in victoria bc last year and rent here has actually went down. From this one single change.
Was there tourism in Victoria and what happened to it after the ban? I’m not clever enough to predict what exactly the consequences might be, but I was always interested in what could happen from banning all short-term rental (although maybe that’s not the case?)
It’s our biggest tourism season in history this summer but that’s thanks to Trump haha
Don’t think it’s had much effect because we’ve always had hotel capacity for the demand
Reducing rent prices was the plan and to be honest, the obvious outcome when demand goes down.
You can also buy one of these tiny former airbnb studio condos for like 20k cad down if you are desperate. Good way to enter the market if that’s all you can come up with. They are all sitting on the market and you can lowball.
Link to condo purchase place?
Just go on realtor.ca and look for 0 bedroom 1 bath units
20k down will get you into a <400k condo that will be like 2/3 the cost of what rent would be
However I would be concerned it’s a hard sell in 5 years when you want to upgrade. I know a lady who lives happily in 400sqft but I couldn’t.
>0 bedroom 1 bath
the fuck
In Seattle we call these studio apartments, I learned reading this thread that it’s not a normal thing. My friends that live in one can’t cook without their bed absorbing the smell.
Yeah in the pnw it’s gotten a little dystopian to say the least
I live in a small CA mountain town that was “the only town open” during COVID, and as such, Airbnb went apeshit. Well the market got oversaturated and now with people trying to offload these properties or rent them out to long term residents , and shocker, rents are coming down (along with home prices). We still have yoyos trying to get $4k/mo for a 2/1 piece of shit because I’m guessing they’re upside down on their mortgage, but those properties have been sitting on the market for at least 6mos. I have zero empathy for the people that bought high and losing their asses because they wanted to make it rich at the expense of our local population.
Canmore?
Probably should’ve specified California lol
Hahaha fuck I miss old Canmore
I live in Florida and we had an influx of people. Mainly due to Florida not shutting down during Covid. I traveled to Puerto Rico during that time and they were shut down. Most of the Bahamas Islands were shutdown as well.
My wife and went on our honeymoon in 2022 to Puerto Rico, and it was honestly pretty lax. We were on the west side in and around Rincon.
Throwing darts over here, Pinecrest?
Much further south, I ain’t Uncle Rico
But the land lords told us Airbnb doesn’t effect rental prices and actually let’s people afford homes!
lol who said this
The people letting AirBNBs!
Okay, but who. I want the name of a specific person or organisation and a link to where they said that. Because it’s such a stupid statement that I’m not going to just take someone’s word that someone was dumb enough to say it or thought people would be dumb enough to believe it.
oh boy, do I have some bad news for you about the stupid shit people believe
It was all over the BC online forums when the province banned short term rentals outside primary residence.
There were op eds, bad studies, lying companies etc. Here a few from quick internet search
A crappy study trying to gaslight people. This was all over. https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate/airbnbs-dont-cause-residential-rent-increases-conference-board-8273746
Air bnb makes the argument they aren’t responsible https://www.airbnb.ca/e/closerlook
Arguing it lowers costs https://news.ncsu.edu/2024/10/airbnb-and-housing-costs/
Thanks
Sorry, I thought you were joking and was playing along!
What happened is the province made short-term rentals only legal for primary residences and secondary suites.
That sure helped some, but you can still find airbnb/vrbo listings in Victoria.Yeah it freed up entire apartments is what helped. I was able to BUY my own condo due to a slight correction in prices partly thanks to this policy
I bet someone would have outbid me and made it into an airbnb if not for this policy
From what I heard from my brother, he lives in Barcelona, they are banning bnbs and short term rentals. In order to combat this problem.
For more details: https://www.euronews.com/travel/2024/07/22/the-end-of-airbnb-in-barcelona-what-does-the-tourism-industry-have-to-say
I live here (!barcelona@piefed.social), the mayor who announced the decision made it so that it would applied after the end of his tenure (that will end in 2027, the decision is supposed to happen in 2028)
The other issue is that even besides tourism, Barcelona is a very attractive city for Spanish people due to the work opportunities, and there is definitely a lack of supply for the housing market. Getting back the Airbnb would help with the mass tourism (which is an issue of its own), but the housing crisis might still be there for a while.
So it is the same as in the rest of Europe with a helping of mass tourism so similar to Amsterdam and Paris.
It’s a bit different, Amsterdam and Paris are touristic destinations, but not to the same level as Barcelona.
By absolute numbers, Paris has obviously more visitors (22 millions vs 13 for Barcelona and 10 for Amsterdam), but Paris is much more populated than Barcelona.
Also, the type of tourism is quite different. Amsterdam and Paris are more expensive, while Barcelona is still seen as a cheaper destination, which brings a different type of crowd. On the same topic, the average level of income of the people living in Barcelona is quite lower than people living in Paris or Amsterdam, making it even more difficult for people living in Barcelona to compete against either tourists or “digital nomads” coming here to work without paying taxes locally.
Sources
No I get it is not the same but the problems are similar. Too many tourist in a city with too few houses and apartments that are now being used as bnbs.
Yes indeed. I think in Europe the worst is probably Lisbon, that has basically been overrun by foreigners, but that’s a common phenomenon in all major cities.
that has basically been overrun by
foreigners, greedy real estate investorsThere, FTFY
Greedy real instate investors bought everything there because there was a demand from non Portuguese people with much higher salaries than the locals.
You don’t see that type of phenomenon in random towns in the Portuguese back country
I did know about Lisbon. I remember hearing the Swiss canton of Vaud had around 60% of it’s population was foreigners. Which resulted in the local Swiss no longer being able to afford any form of housing anymore.
That’s great for them. But I live in the capitalist nightmare that is the US. I’m one generation removed from being able to go back to Norway or Sweden. It’s like being imprisoned in a hellscape at birth.
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