Dictators aren’t immediately bad and democracies aren’t immediately good.
Since most people are dumb as shit and are being herded like sheep, it requires individuals who can resist the influence of the crowd to fix problems the crowd has been conditioned to allow.
In the case of El Salvador, since whatever they were doing before wasn’t working, they now need to deal with an alternative that works better.
They only have themselves and the people sucking off their gang members to blame.
I think time takes care of the “indefinition” part of the problem. people can help that too.
“90% of developed countries allow the indefinite reelection of their head of government, and no one bats an eye. But when a small, poor country like El Salvador tries to do the same, suddenly it’s the end of democracy.”
The difference is those governments usually have civil liberties etc that constrain the government. (The erosion of which is partly why trump is so concerning.)
Bukele has been arresting journalists and politicians he doesn’t like. If you are arrested you effectively have no recourse.
You can literally get arrested for social media posts in Europe. Anybody who’s still pretending that there are some civil liberties in the west is deeply unserious.
What kind of speech posted in social media post do you find it awful that people can get arrested for? One should not escape prosecution for death threats, child pornography or hate speech just because it’s published in the form of a social media post. But I suspect you probably have something closer to a grey area in mind.
I’m talking about things like people protesting a literal genocide that the UK and Germany are conducting in Gaza https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/uk-pensioner-student-arrested-for-backing-palestine-action/article69906189.ece
Opposition to genocide
Lol, are we seriously comparing CECOTland with being sued over posts? Deeply unserious.
You’re right, it would be entirely idiotic to compare a socialist government dealing with violent extremism by providing education with a fascist regime incarcerating people protesting a genocide it’s conducting.
Bukele, the Bitcoin-toting collaborationist with the Trump deportation scheme, is now a socialist. A self described “Third Way”-ist is now a socialist. A man who hangs out at CPAC, is now a socialist.
I have to frame this comment.
I assumed you were referring to China there with the fav lib “education camps” trope.
I referenced CECOT on a post talking about El Salvador. Not sure how u managed to think I was talking about China.
yeah that’s on me
You can literally get arrested for social media posts in Europe.
And then, as has happened for those cases, you get a trial.
The people arrested in El Salvador do not get trials. To conflate the two situations is either ignorant or simply childish.
So if someone gets a trial and is found guilty for making bad posts you do not believe their civil liberties were violated, is that right?
No.
I am saying that a country with a functional judiciary is categorically different than one without.
Saying democratic countries with laws you dislike are the same as a country where the state is unrestrained by law is utter nonsense.
Edit: To put it very simply, in both places you could be arrested for social media posts. In El Salvador, that could be the last anyone hears of you. In the other, you have a lawyer, a fair trial and if you lose, you still have some human rights.
I know which I’d prefer.
“”“Democratic”“” doing a lot of work there.
These aren’t democratically popular laws and the people never voted to have these laws put into place. These laws were imposed onto them because their democracy is limited by what they are allowed to even vote for - in the end, there is still a ruling class.
Arguing there’s no difference between a regime that disappears citizens and a flawed western democracy is mind bendingly dumb.
The west is literally commiting a genocide. They are mass disappearing people into the afterlife. Mind boggling that in 2025 we still have incredulous libs who believe in western exceptionalism.
The regimes that disappears citizens are western “democracies”. The only thing that’s mind bendingly dumb here is fact that you’re evidently unaware of this fact.
Yeah, one is run by white people
There isn’t enough of a difference. After all, El Salvador is a “flawed democracy” too.
functional judiciary
The US definitely doesn’t have this anymore.
The civil liberty to be extra-judicially murdered like Fred Hampton or the Ferguson organizers.
Yeah, and everyone was totally fine with Trump talkimg about a third because, as we know, term limits and democracy only matter in small, poor countries.
Oh wow, you missed the hundreds of think pieces freaking out about that threat?
May I introduce you to the concept of irony?
Ha, my bad! Sorry, too many children on this thread posting just absolute nonsense.
“the adults in the room” angle doesn’t even encompass you considering your defense for western “democracies”, fucking ageist.
Let me guess, GenZ/Y drawing a hard red line on and being vocal about genocide and western interventionism is attributed to their “youthful fervor” that will wane away in time too?
“the adults in the room” angle doesn’t even encompass you considering your defense for western “democracies”, fucking ageist.
It’s more that the take being espoused, that there’s no difference between a state that disappears journalists and citizens compared to a Western democracy is a childish take, and to argue it makes you seem a child.
It’s like when my friend’s adorable toddler asked why she can’t have ice cream “an a broccli” every meal (as she understands vegetables are important.) It’s a reasonable question for a child as we don’t expect her to understand all the nutrition etc that makes that a terrible plan. If she asks it, no worries. If a teenager or older asks, I immediately assume they’re kind of a child.
Arguing a place that locks up journalists and ‘suspected’ citizens is in the same realm as a western democracy with some laws you don’t like, is a childish position, that you expect from someone with little to no understanding of the role/importance of a judiciary, checks and balances between branches of government or the fourth branch. They likely know and understand little about the many regimes where this has happened and the horrific tragedies that ensue. And fair, not everyone has time to read or the fortune of knowing people who have come from those places. But it is still childishly ignorant.
Let me guess, GenZ/Y drawing a hard red line on and being vocal about genocide and western interventionism is attributed to their “youthful fervor” that will wane away in time too?
Huh, where are you getting this from?
More word-salad that basically amount to patronizing “it’s nuanced” ageism is all I’m reading here, fucking racist age-chauvinist.
The others in other threads have clearly expressed their points in great detail as to why Western regimes, currently committing genocide and adding multiple war crimes under their belt, are not “liberating”, “civilized” states upholding “civil liberties”. Applying jurisprudence to regime changes, land-grabbing, enslavement, disappearance, murders and torture and going through court circus to justify their actions doesn’t make them “civilized” or much better than their client states, European settler.
