• queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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    7 days ago

    So if someone gets a trial and is found guilty for making bad posts you do not believe their civil liberties were violated, is that right?

    • MyBrainHurts@lemmy.ca
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      7 days ago

      No.

      I am saying that a country with a functional judiciary is categorically different than one without.

      Saying democratic countries with laws you dislike are the same as a country where the state is unrestrained by law is utter nonsense.

      Edit: To put it very simply, in both places you could be arrested for social media posts. In El Salvador, that could be the last anyone hears of you. In the other, you have a lawyer, a fair trial and if you lose, you still have some human rights.

      I know which I’d prefer.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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        7 days ago

        “”“Democratic”“” doing a lot of work there.

        These aren’t democratically popular laws and the people never voted to have these laws put into place. These laws were imposed onto them because their democracy is limited by what they are allowed to even vote for - in the end, there is still a ruling class.

        • MyBrainHurts@lemmy.ca
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          7 days ago

          Arguing there’s no difference between a regime that disappears citizens and a flawed western democracy is mind bendingly dumb.

          • Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml
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            6 days ago

            The west is literally commiting a genocide. They are mass disappearing people into the afterlife. Mind boggling that in 2025 we still have incredulous libs who believe in western exceptionalism.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
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            7 days ago

            The regimes that disappears citizens are western “democracies”. The only thing that’s mind bendingly dumb here is fact that you’re evidently unaware of this fact.

                • MyBrainHurts@lemmy.ca
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                  6 days ago

                  No.

                  I am saying that a country with a functional judiciary is categorically different than one without.

                  Saying democratic countries with laws you dislike are the same as a country where the state is unrestrained by law is utter nonsense.

                  Edit: To put it very simply, in both places you could be arrested for social media posts. In El Salvador, that could be the last anyone hears of you. In the other, you have a lawyer, a fair trial and if you lose, you still have some human rights.

                  I know which I’d prefer.

                  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                    6 days ago

                    To unsimplify it, in both places you will have your civil liberties violated when you are arrested for making bad posts. In El Salvador, that’s it. Game over. In the other you have a lawyer and a trial and other various rights, so you don’t disappear.

                    But, your civil liberties are still violated when you get arrested for posting. That doesn’t go away just because there is a process to ameliorate the harm, even if you win your court case your civil liberties were still violated! You also probably won’t win in court if you are guilty of bad posts, despite the fact that the law is absurd. The government letting you have your day in court after already violating your rights and then finding you guilty anyway doesn’t really mean civil liberties are protected.

                    The country you prefer to live in is entirely irrelevant to the actual question: are civil liberties being violated?

                    And they clearly are.