I’m going to assume you’re posting in good faith until proven otherwise.
The US never fought an urban country the size of Las Vegas, so a country-scale comparison is poor. We have however engaged in city-scale battles lasting several months, many of which killed 1% of the civilian population. A pretty good recent example is Mosul. There are several more egregious examples in the world wars, Korea, Vietnam, etc. notably we carpet bombed Tokyo for months killing several percent of the population.
Be careful not to ask why a country is packed into the size of Vegas or you may realize that was a coordinated campaign by the same people who are now claiming it’s impossible to not slaughter innocents because of the way THEY designed the strip.
Intentionally brining about conditions that lead to destruction in whole or part of a group is genocide, literally as written, in the Geneva Convention. Israel is the reason it’s so populated there, so when they blame the density, they blame themselves.
I’m well aware of the history and parallels with Jewish ghettos. These are somewhat confounded by repeated rejected offers of a two-state solution over 70 years, periods on unilateral Israeli withdrawal, the election of Hamas, decades of terror attacks on Israeli civilians with popular support, and a recent 9/11 scale massacre which also has popular support.
Also not to nitpick, but Israel didn’t create or design the Gaza strip. That was Egypt, who controlled it for 20 years without giving them citizenship or letting them leave.
Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas.
This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank
Speaking to Likud members of the Knesset (March 2019), as cited in “Another Concept Implodes: Israel Can’t Be Managed by a Criminal Defendant”, Haaretz (9 October 2023)
I hate that I am defending Israel when I say this because what is occurring in Gaza is tragic, but a lot of people are confusing “Genocide” for perceived “War Crimes” as defined by international law and also confusing “Hamas” for “Palestine” or the “Palestinian Authority”.
Hamas is terrorist government (similar in nature to the Taliban) that receives a lot of external funding from countries that actively wish to see the death of Israel and all Jews, making Hamas the chief perpetrators of Genocide in this conflict despite how ineffective they have been in their goals.
Israel was attacked by this terrorist government, and is now defending itself with the expressed war goal of destroying Hamas. While Israel has had a tenuous relationship with the Palestinian people (namely the government’s active efforts to limit the Palestinian Authority and drag their feet on grant the PA more autonomy and their own state which is deplorable and inexcusable), they do not and have not wished to kill an entire culture of people.
Complicating matters, Hamas commonly employs warfare techniques that go against the Geneva Convention like placing government and military headquarters in basements of protected buildings like Hospitals and places of worship. The moment they do that, and abuse those international recognized sanctuaries, they become legitimate military targets leading to the tragic deaths of unwitting civilians.
People can object to the war on the grounds that war is tragic and results in many civilian casualties, but to make meritless claims is detrimental to both international institutions and to the definition of a Genocide. South Africa calls what Israel is doing a genocide, but also explicitly looks the other way with Ukraine and continues to forge close ties with Putin? (For the record, Russia’s actions in Ukraine are also not considered genocide under it’s strict international definition, but they have been found guilty of war crimes).
Israel has an internationally recognized right to defend itself, and it is doing that by dismantling Hamas through force. The Palestinian people are unfortunately caught in the crossfire. With that said, Israel’s methods to this end are not above criticism, and they have faced pressure from the US and Biden to limit civilian casualties wherever possible, and use ground forces to directly attack Hamas rather than relying on airstrikes that have resulted in many innocent deaths.
For those reading who think all war is bad, I’ll leave you with this quote from John Stuart Mills:
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.
All sides seem to get confused about the difference between Hamas and the Palestinians, at least when it suits them.
The charge of genocide is entirely fair and well supported. Israel’s consistent refusals to allow adequate aid, and cutting off water and power are sufficient all by themselves to support that claim, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
The reason this is a genocide where Ukraine is more of a warcrimes but not Genocide situation has to do with how international relief for civilians is handled. Routinely blocking international relief efforts to evacuate or treat the wounded, provide food, water and fuel for civilians tends to threaten the bit of genocide ruling that marks “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”. Making " reasonable" provision keeps that off of the table. Russia has been cagey about relief efforts but has always fallen short of a full blockade.
But when you look at Israel they have a situation set up where prior to this conflict they had a system in place that put a lot of paperwork in place for Pallistinians to use Israeli hospitals. If you then remove the hospitals that are open for unrestricted Palistinian use and then allow the pre-existing system to become choked with paperwork for a problem you aren’t really interested in solving you aren’t fulfilling your duty of care. The Israeli government has also outright said it’s intention is to block food, water and fuel going to Palistinian civilians. Fuel sounds like a lesser consideration but it is key to keeping sanitation at reasonable levels.
So you have a civilian population starving, likely fighting outbreaks of cholera, dysentary, typhoid intestinal parasites and hepatitis with no viable place to seek treatment and international aid in the form of food, water and medical supplies has been stopped, the intention being made baldly clear by statements made by high ranking officials that this is a deliberate tactic.
Thusfar Egypt and Jordan have blocked refugees from entering the country because of concerns of damage to their Israeli peace treaties which means the dominos are set to cause massive loss of life for Palestinian civilians where help is held out of reach by Israeli interests. Hence, a genocide.
I’m going to assume you’re posting in good faith until proven otherwise.
The US never fought an urban country the size of Las Vegas, so a country-scale comparison is poor. We have however engaged in city-scale battles lasting several months, many of which killed 1% of the civilian population. A pretty good recent example is Mosul. There are several more egregious examples in the world wars, Korea, Vietnam, etc. notably we carpet bombed Tokyo for months killing several percent of the population.
Be careful not to ask why a country is packed into the size of Vegas or you may realize that was a coordinated campaign by the same people who are now claiming it’s impossible to not slaughter innocents because of the way THEY designed the strip.
Intentionally brining about conditions that lead to destruction in whole or part of a group is genocide, literally as written, in the Geneva Convention. Israel is the reason it’s so populated there, so when they blame the density, they blame themselves.
I’m well aware of the history and parallels with Jewish ghettos. These are somewhat confounded by repeated rejected offers of a two-state solution over 70 years, periods on unilateral Israeli withdrawal, the election of Hamas, decades of terror attacks on Israeli civilians with popular support, and a recent 9/11 scale massacre which also has popular support.
Also not to nitpick, but Israel didn’t create or design the Gaza strip. That was Egypt, who controlled it for 20 years without giving them citizenship or letting them leave.
Here’s a cool Netanyahu quote:
Here’s a compact 5 minute video about Hamas origins and how israel propped them up themselves.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Here’s a compact 5 minute video about Hamas origins and how israel propped them up themselves.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
deleted by creator
I hate that I am defending Israel when I say this because what is occurring in Gaza is tragic, but a lot of people are confusing “Genocide” for perceived “War Crimes” as defined by international law and also confusing “Hamas” for “Palestine” or the “Palestinian Authority”.
Hamas is terrorist government (similar in nature to the Taliban) that receives a lot of external funding from countries that actively wish to see the death of Israel and all Jews, making Hamas the chief perpetrators of Genocide in this conflict despite how ineffective they have been in their goals.
Israel was attacked by this terrorist government, and is now defending itself with the expressed war goal of destroying Hamas. While Israel has had a tenuous relationship with the Palestinian people (namely the government’s active efforts to limit the Palestinian Authority and drag their feet on grant the PA more autonomy and their own state which is deplorable and inexcusable), they do not and have not wished to kill an entire culture of people.
Complicating matters, Hamas commonly employs warfare techniques that go against the Geneva Convention like placing government and military headquarters in basements of protected buildings like Hospitals and places of worship. The moment they do that, and abuse those international recognized sanctuaries, they become legitimate military targets leading to the tragic deaths of unwitting civilians.
People can object to the war on the grounds that war is tragic and results in many civilian casualties, but to make meritless claims is detrimental to both international institutions and to the definition of a Genocide. South Africa calls what Israel is doing a genocide, but also explicitly looks the other way with Ukraine and continues to forge close ties with Putin? (For the record, Russia’s actions in Ukraine are also not considered genocide under it’s strict international definition, but they have been found guilty of war crimes).
Israel has an internationally recognized right to defend itself, and it is doing that by dismantling Hamas through force. The Palestinian people are unfortunately caught in the crossfire. With that said, Israel’s methods to this end are not above criticism, and they have faced pressure from the US and Biden to limit civilian casualties wherever possible, and use ground forces to directly attack Hamas rather than relying on airstrikes that have resulted in many innocent deaths.
For those reading who think all war is bad, I’ll leave you with this quote from John Stuart Mills:
All sides seem to get confused about the difference between Hamas and the Palestinians, at least when it suits them.
The charge of genocide is entirely fair and well supported. Israel’s consistent refusals to allow adequate aid, and cutting off water and power are sufficient all by themselves to support that claim, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
The reason this is a genocide where Ukraine is more of a warcrimes but not Genocide situation has to do with how international relief for civilians is handled. Routinely blocking international relief efforts to evacuate or treat the wounded, provide food, water and fuel for civilians tends to threaten the bit of genocide ruling that marks “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”. Making " reasonable" provision keeps that off of the table. Russia has been cagey about relief efforts but has always fallen short of a full blockade.
But when you look at Israel they have a situation set up where prior to this conflict they had a system in place that put a lot of paperwork in place for Pallistinians to use Israeli hospitals. If you then remove the hospitals that are open for unrestricted Palistinian use and then allow the pre-existing system to become choked with paperwork for a problem you aren’t really interested in solving you aren’t fulfilling your duty of care. The Israeli government has also outright said it’s intention is to block food, water and fuel going to Palistinian civilians. Fuel sounds like a lesser consideration but it is key to keeping sanitation at reasonable levels.
So you have a civilian population starving, likely fighting outbreaks of cholera, dysentary, typhoid intestinal parasites and hepatitis with no viable place to seek treatment and international aid in the form of food, water and medical supplies has been stopped, the intention being made baldly clear by statements made by high ranking officials that this is a deliberate tactic.
Thusfar Egypt and Jordan have blocked refugees from entering the country because of concerns of damage to their Israeli peace treaties which means the dominos are set to cause massive loss of life for Palestinian civilians where help is held out of reach by Israeli interests. Hence, a genocide.