Linus highlights several pain points with regards to desktop Linux.From DebConf 14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c80:00 Application distribution i...
This was the most confusing thing to me when getting started with linux It was baffling to me that jumping from different distros would completely change how i had to install packages or push me to use flatpak. I genuinely could not wrap my head around how there were no universally accepted binaries between distros. And hes talking about this years ago before recent mass adoption…
I landed on an arch based distro because it seems like they have the most universal solution after jumping around. Curious to know, what distro In your opinion the closest to “getting it right”? Open to all not just @PhilipTheBucket
IMO Linux’s biggest problem is choices. Normal people don’t really want choices, they just want the one, and it needs to work. The second you tell them there’s 17 different options, and each one has 9 sub options, and each sub option has 4 more sub sub options they just tune out. Got a problem? Google “Linux fix XYZ” and there’s 300 different fixes and maybe one of them works. Or maybe it doesn’t.
With windows there’s 1 or 2 windows. You get what Microsoft thinks is best. Don’t like it? Maybe someone’s made a tweak. But odds are too bad, suck it up. And then they move on with their life.
I want to say you’re wrong but damn not 20 mins before reading this did I just type into my search engine [“issue x” Arch wayland gnome nvidia grub] to help narrow down my query to my specific system. I will say that once I do this though Im usually met with pretty much exactly what Im looking for or at least a small group of people working toward a solution. It takes getting used to but Im overall much happier with my experience on Linux because like you said its not a 5050 whether i can fix the problem or not, I CAN but now its all about how much time im willing to invest or the community has already invested. With more people moving everyday I can watch my experience get better and better as the community improves everything.
Well you’re right on, because that’s exactly the reason i haven’t tried linux yet, i have very little time for entertainment and i need to allocate my time to the thing i felt needed at the moment, between “trying to research and install linux and try out a few and troubleshoot when stuff came out” and “play game”, i always pick the latter.
by all means wait, I recommend trying it but eventually bazzite, steamos, nixos or fedora will take so much market share that your experience will be indistinguishable from windows or simply better.
Also I agree we all have less time with the state of the world right now but when you solve or even just point out a problem on windows or linux you’re making the experience better for other users. If you want to look at yourself like an upaid beta tester thats fine but id rather be working towards improving the software that is free and open source even if its alot less convenient or simple.
Steam I think is probably the closest thing to “right” for the problem he was describing. You pick your app, it downloads and then it works. There’s some behind-the-scenes nonsense involved, but it is in actuality hidden from the end-user, in a way that it is not in any of the “we fixed the Linux desktop!” solutions I have seen that are in actuality just another instance of XKCD 927. I was actually really pleased that he brought up Valve since that was the example that came to mind when he was laying out the problem.
I think it is okay if Linux is bad on “the desktop,” honestly. The world needs tractors and consumer-grade cars. They both have use cases. If what you need is a tractor, and you’re comfortable with the fact that it’s not going to work like a car, then a tractor will do things that are totally impossible with a Hyundai Elantra. That doesn’t mean we need to make tractors just as user-friendly as cars are, so that people can have one vehicle that does both. It is okay for some things to have a learning curve. But I think the example of the difficulties they had with subsurface are really significant things, it’s not just a question of “oh yeah it works different,” there are things that are just worse.
I think something like Arch or NixOS is probably the closest to “right” at this point. There is still a learning curve, so maybe not for everyone, but it’s manageable and things aren’t set up in gratuitously difficult ways. Maybe Bazzite, based on what I’ve heard, but I have not tried it so IDK.
The world needs tractors and consumer-grade cars. They both have use cases. If what you need is a tractor, and you’re comfortable with the fact that it’s not going to work like a car, then a tractor will do things that are totally impossible with a Hyundai Elantra.
have not considered this perspective, and rolling with the metaphor Linux users are essentially rolling down main street with unsightly tractors telling car people how much better it is owning a tractor. when in reality we should be more honest a tractor is simply not for everyone. that being said I agree Arch fedora and nixos were the most user friendly tractors ive used, and similarly have not tried Bazzite, Steamos or chromeos but im hoping they become the “pickup trucks” of the PC world
I do too, clearly as does Linus. He’s just talking about some of the issues that prevent it from getting adopted by the normies.
This was the most confusing thing to me when getting started with linux It was baffling to me that jumping from different distros would completely change how i had to install packages or push me to use flatpak. I genuinely could not wrap my head around how there were no universally accepted binaries between distros. And hes talking about this years ago before recent mass adoption…
I landed on an arch based distro because it seems like they have the most universal solution after jumping around. Curious to know, what distro In your opinion the closest to “getting it right”? Open to all not just @PhilipTheBucket
IMO Linux’s biggest problem is choices. Normal people don’t really want choices, they just want the one, and it needs to work. The second you tell them there’s 17 different options, and each one has 9 sub options, and each sub option has 4 more sub sub options they just tune out. Got a problem? Google “Linux fix XYZ” and there’s 300 different fixes and maybe one of them works. Or maybe it doesn’t.
With windows there’s 1 or 2 windows. You get what Microsoft thinks is best. Don’t like it? Maybe someone’s made a tweak. But odds are too bad, suck it up. And then they move on with their life.
I want to say you’re wrong but damn not 20 mins before reading this did I just type into my search engine [“issue x” Arch wayland gnome nvidia grub] to help narrow down my query to my specific system. I will say that once I do this though Im usually met with pretty much exactly what Im looking for or at least a small group of people working toward a solution. It takes getting used to but Im overall much happier with my experience on Linux because like you said its not a 5050 whether i can fix the problem or not, I CAN but now its all about how much time im willing to invest or the community has already invested. With more people moving everyday I can watch my experience get better and better as the community improves everything.
Well you’re right on, because that’s exactly the reason i haven’t tried linux yet, i have very little time for entertainment and i need to allocate my time to the thing i felt needed at the moment, between “trying to research and install linux and try out a few and troubleshoot when stuff came out” and “play game”, i always pick the latter.
by all means wait, I recommend trying it but eventually bazzite, steamos, nixos or fedora will take so much market share that your experience will be indistinguishable from windows or simply better.
Also I agree we all have less time with the state of the world right now but when you solve or even just point out a problem on windows or linux you’re making the experience better for other users. If you want to look at yourself like an upaid beta tester thats fine but id rather be working towards improving the software that is free and open source even if its alot less convenient or simple.
Steam I think is probably the closest thing to “right” for the problem he was describing. You pick your app, it downloads and then it works. There’s some behind-the-scenes nonsense involved, but it is in actuality hidden from the end-user, in a way that it is not in any of the “we fixed the Linux desktop!” solutions I have seen that are in actuality just another instance of XKCD 927. I was actually really pleased that he brought up Valve since that was the example that came to mind when he was laying out the problem.
I think it is okay if Linux is bad on “the desktop,” honestly. The world needs tractors and consumer-grade cars. They both have use cases. If what you need is a tractor, and you’re comfortable with the fact that it’s not going to work like a car, then a tractor will do things that are totally impossible with a Hyundai Elantra. That doesn’t mean we need to make tractors just as user-friendly as cars are, so that people can have one vehicle that does both. It is okay for some things to have a learning curve. But I think the example of the difficulties they had with subsurface are really significant things, it’s not just a question of “oh yeah it works different,” there are things that are just worse.
I think something like Arch or NixOS is probably the closest to “right” at this point. There is still a learning curve, so maybe not for everyone, but it’s manageable and things aren’t set up in gratuitously difficult ways. Maybe Bazzite, based on what I’ve heard, but I have not tried it so IDK.
have not considered this perspective, and rolling with the metaphor Linux users are essentially rolling down main street with unsightly tractors telling car people how much better it is owning a tractor. when in reality we should be more honest a tractor is simply not for everyone. that being said I agree Arch fedora and nixos were the most user friendly tractors ive used, and similarly have not tried Bazzite, Steamos or chromeos but im hoping they become the “pickup trucks” of the PC world
I feel like the problem for consumer grade Linux is that the general population needs far more support than the industry currently offers.
Steam and Google seem closest to consumer grade Linux because the support they need to provide is subsided by their app stores and other services.
Relevant thread:
https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75