I believe this is something only each of us can answer, because where each person draws the line is always going to be different, or am I wrong?
I don’t know if I’m being reasonable with my red lines:
My parents are conservative Mexican. I was raised with Christian dogmas and clear social roles (men don’t cook or do the laundry, only women do). To my parents and people like them, family, or what they think of as family, comes always first: It is imperative we all meet several times a year, even if you don’t want to, because that’s what we’re supposed to do. I’m expected to attend, to pretend I like my extended family (people I have nothing in common with), to “do it for them” (for my parents, in the past this form of emotional manipulation worked, since 4 months it doesn’t anymore). I hated that as a child and if I ever have children I won’t put them to such BS.
My grandfather was mentally ill and insulted me, my siblings and my mother for most of my childhood until he died, while my father enabled that pos. In Mexico it is expected that families take care of such issues within the family, because asking for help elsewhere means the family loses face. I’ve already told my parents that if they ever become psychologically unstable and start insulting and ranting no stop, I’m not going to take care of them, I’m calling APS. I don’t know if they registered it when I said it.
Maybe because I was raised in such a strict, self censoring and conformist family I now want to defend my independence at any cost. Cue meeting people halfway or being a doormat.
If a woman I’m dating asks me to do “something for her”, my first instinct will be to run no looking back and ghost. If I stay trying to convince her that’s not a good idea explaining why, that means in my book she already manipulated me into listening to her and that she can keep manipulating me. I don’t know if this is self sabotage, but I see it as self defense.
If a woman I’m dating asks me about my parents and the issue of providing for elderly parents is discussed, it wouldn’t make any sense to sugarcoat it, I’d say what I just wrote here. If she accuses me of being a psychopath and starts with “they’re your parents”, as if that was a reason good enough to forgive everything in the past, I’d run and ghost. I don’t know if you see this as self sabotage, but I see it as self defense.
There are other examples I’ve heard at the workplace over couple problems that to me are simply ludicrous and would make me want to run away:
he wanted Chinese, she wanted Mexican and couldn’t agree what restaurant to call. My solution would be to order what I want, telling my partner to order what she wants. Why must we order from the same restaurant? Why so much drama over something so insignificant? Or she can order what she wants and I can cook.
She made weekend plans without telling him beforehand, he wanted to rest, grab a beer, go fishing and do nothing else. She wanted to have lunch with another couple (double date), he said no, because he wanted a quiet weekend and suggested she goes alone with the couple. She started yelling about not doing things together.
But why must couples do everything together? Why is doing things separately not a good idea? He gets his peace and she gets to socialize.
If meeting somebody halfway means doing something I don’t want to do, I don’t want a relationship with this person.
If a person I’m dating feels entitled to try to change me, I don’t see how a relationship would work. Am I a narcissist?
It sounds like you might have some unresolved issues from childhood. Your family didn’t respect your autonomy so now you’re maybe hyper vigilant about getting controlled by others?
Not being able to compromise even on small things like where to eat seems like it could become an issue. Do you really care about every little detail like that or are you just in constant defense mode?
There’s a lot of nice people out there you could safely compromise with on smaller things for mutual benefits, so it can be worthwhile to work on.
Being aware of it and examining it like you are now is a good first step.
Perhaps you could try to compromise on something tiny, with someone who hasn’t abused you, and see how it feels?
Life is all about compromise. The right partner will compromise for you just as much as you will compromise for them. I compromise more for some people and less for others depending on how close my relationship is to that person.
You should discuss this all with a therapist.
Where is the line between meeting somebody halfway and being a doormat with no personality?
About half way.
Doormat with no personality is all the way. Meeting somebody halfway is halfway there. Always needing to have it your way is going nowhere at all.
couldn’t agree what restaurant to call. My solution would be to order what I want, telling my partner to order what she wants. Why must we order from the same restaurant?
Otherwise you’d have to pay double the delivery fee or drive to two different places to pick up the orders, which might not be ready at the same time. There are advantages to cooperating on things.
She wanted to have lunch with another couple (double date), he said no, because he wanted a quiet weekend and suggested she goes alone with the couple. She started yelling about not doing things together.
But why must couples do everything together? Why is doing things separately not a good idea? He gets his peace and she gets to socialize.
If you aren’t doing things together, that’s a different sort of relationship than if you are. It’s valid to want one or the other, but should probably be on the same page about it with your partner.
To me most of the draw of a relationship, romantic or otherwise, is the opportunity to work together to make both of your lives better, to have someone you trust to care how you feel and who has your back, and who you can do the same for them. Playing a role in someones life can be a satisfying responsibility to fulfill and worthwhile, but it should ideally be something you actively choose to be responsible for. It sounds like what you’re struggling with is that because of your upbringing you have a hard time seeing that sort of responsibility as anything other than something that you get roped into due to circumstances, tradition, guilt and manipulation, but it doesn’t have to be like that. Sometimes someone asking you for help is because they trust you and know you want to help, rather than trying to take advantage and control you.
That said, you don’t have to want to work towards that either, it’s also fine if you want a sort of relationship where you keep a lot of distance from each other, just find someone who also wants that instead of someone hoping for something else.
Drawing clear boundaries for yourself is a good thing and has nothing to do with narcissism. They are about what is important to you. Disagreement over such boundaries can mean the end of the relationship, for the better.
Though it sounds like you are somewhat overcompensating in some areas due to your family experiences (I might be wrong in that). A serious relationship also means meeting the partners needs. If you draw the boundaries so hard to rule out any compromise, then dating will be very difficult, maybe impossible. So you need to be clear with yourself of what is really important and where you can compromise.
Your examples are very different. First its about “doing something” for her, which is too vague to answer. Might be anything. Just using the phrase “Do it for me” is not manipulative in my view. It might be something that is important for her. If you can compromise on that, why not meeting her need? If not, then communicate it and the reasons clearly. If thats a problem for her, the relationship can still just end.
Then its about keeping contact with your family or potentially nursing your parents. That seems to be a hard (and probably healthy) boundary for you. She should accept that. Though talking about it in a non-pressuring way is ok.
And the last two examples are these low stakes situations, where probably the communication is going wrong. These are easily solvable without much drama, by compromising (and yes, ording from different restaurants or having one person cook while the other orders is also a compromise). Do you know the 4 sides of a message? I think it is a quite important concept about communication, since sometimes the anger or sadness, that you her from your partner are not really about what they are saying. Human communcation can be quite complex.
Personally I love a doormat. Don’t know what you’re talking about.
There’s a line running through the middle of this; on one side you’re strongly independent and on the other side you’re an asshole. I’ve veered back and forward across this line for most of my life (in my late 40s now). There’s no hard and fast rules around which side of the line you’re on in any given situation, every circumstance is different and needs to be assessed on its own merits.
If meeting somebody halfway means doing something I don’t want to do, I don’t want a relationship with this person.
Having this as a hard rule that you always stick to, will frequently put you on the asshole side of the line. Sometimes its nice to do something for someone, even if you don’t particularly enjoy it, just because it’ll make them happy. If you care a lot about them, making them happy is enjoyable (well, it should be!) even if the specific activity isn’t. As I said, you assess each situation on its own merits. Figuring out how much you’re willing to compromise on stuff like this, and for whom, is just something you’ll need to work on over time. If it’s something that you don’t particularly want to do but it’ll make your partner really happy, why wouldn’t you want to give them that?
Communication is key. You need to be able to explain to the person why you make these decisions, but also be able to listen to them about how they feel about it, and find some understanding on both sides.
But why must couples do everything together?
They shouldn’t, people who think like that are awful. But they should do some things together. Probably quite a lot of things.
If a person I’m dating feels entitled to try to change me, I don’t see how a relationship would work
Going from being by yourself to being in a relationship will always require changes. If the way you think in a relationship doesn’t change to include the other person, then you’re not really in a relationship you’re just hanging out. People shouldn’t try to force changes on people against their will, but you should be accepting that you will need to make some changes, just because it is a fundamentally changed situation from being on your own.
It does sound to me like you have some reflexive responses that are a reaction to your upbringing, that I suspect will make it difficult for you to communicate and negotiate through a relationship in these ways. Some kind of therapy can potentially help you work through some of this, but also being self aware (which you seem to have some amount of) and learning through experience should be able to mature these aspects of your personality over time, as long as you make the effort to self-assess and try and be as objective as possible in those assessments.
Couples can do different things at the same time. It doesn’t mean the relationship is over, on the contrary it means you’re both comfortable with the other being independent. If you both like Chinese and Mexican, have Chinese this time and Mexican next. Or as you say, order from two different places. If you always have Mexican then she’s getting her way all the time which isn’t meeting halfway.
Women do seem to like showing of their husbands. So you’ll need to go places with her sometimes, providing that you also get some restful weekends at home where she is either present or off with her girlfriends somewhere. If you don’t ever want to do stuff with her then she’s right to be concerned: why did you get together if you don’t actually want to be together?
Where to draw the line: I’d suggest keeping count. If you compromise all the time and she never does, then that would suggest something of a lopsided relationship. But as others have said, you don’t want to count everything otherwise you’ll be the asshole.
