The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanon’s southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023.
The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanon’s southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023.
And the US and UK give unconditional support.
I’m ashamed of my country and it only grows for each day that passes.
so you’ve been ashamed for all of 24 days?
Idk about OP but I’ve been ashamed of my country since at least
201620011990August 6, 1945the 17th century when “we” decided that land settled by Native Americans somehow belonged to us. I wasn’t alive for most of that time but I guarantee my country has done shameful things for muuuch longer than 24 days.You get it. It’s scary that some people seem to think you can only be upset at one thing at a time.
I will say I’m British so the dates are slightly different but we’re not far off the same bullshit pulled by the same ego stroking cunts.
Agriculture was a mistake
Shouldn’t have left that puddle in the early Triassic
little clarification here - humanity isnt native to anywhere other than Africa. the people that were in the American continents prior to the arrival of Europeans might not have taken boats to get there - though some clearly did as there were multiple waves of settlement over a few thousand years.
if their ancestors walked over the land bridge during the ice age and that somehow qualifies them as natives, then what about the ones whose ancestors took a boat across where the land bridge used to be and sailed down the coast? if they qualify, then why dont the people whose European ancestors took boats qualify as native? is it because the last round of people had vastly superior technology? because we speak the same languages they did? because we’re the same ethnicity they were? is this a racism argument? I didnt get that memo.
is this a branch of the “noble savage” theory? there was a lot of war between various tribes in North America - generational warfare usually, where one tribe would traditionally raid another for resources or for women. this is well documented and had been occurring for as long as anyone could remember - long, long before the reintroduction of the horse into North America.
I’d say you’re native if when you arrive, there’s not already people living there. They walked the land bridge, found no other humans and then settled. Europeans sailed across the sea and found the native Americans and then continued to slaughter and pillage them for their own gain.
I’m not even sure how you’re comparing the 2 events.
But these groups and people weren’t the same people as the ones that walked across the land bridge. The cultures had long since diverged and were different. Wars had been fought. Whole groups died or merged. And if you go back a little further, they are all closely related. I don’t think the point is that the slaughtering and pillaging was OK. It is that you cannot have a good faith argument on fixing current problems by trying to focus only on arbitrary time periods to claim certain privileges. I am very much in favor of doing more to make the lives of the native americans better, but I also will not make the argument that descendants of Europeans or Africans have no claim to the land there either. Because to do so is not in good faith and just ignores reality. Any time period you pick to decide who has a claim to a place is arbitrary. We cannot change the past. We can only change the future (but we are limited by the confines of the present).
This person really woke up and typed 3 paragraphs on the justification of manifest destiny
Good morning! Wash the land with blood every day!
I think it’s mostly the uther lack of consideration for the locals at the time. Europeans went there with the explicit aim to “conquer” and loot a continent that was inhabited by dozens if not hundreds of societies. They went there, killed, raped and enslaved hundreds of thousands of people. Can’t imagine to hear anyone defend that kind of behavior.
If you believe the reports coming out of the Hamas aligned side, Israel has not once hit a legitimate military target. They were all civilians. Do you remember that refugee camp they hit yesterday? You know, the one with all the apartment buildings where Hamas leadership suspiciously died at the exact same time. That was all civilians.
Arab states in the immediate vicinity cannot fathom that Israel could be any more trustworthy than their own governments despite consistency on the Israeli side. To be honest, after having seen how it works myself, I don’t believe anything coming out of that region but those channels coming out of the Israeli state itself. I do not understand why people take any of the reports of the Hamas or aligned organizations at face value but they do.
State or no state, Hamas was legitimately elected by the people of Palestine. They committed a horrendous attack against Israel justifying a defensive war. War is fucking ugly. There’s no way around it without risking your own forces. This is not genocide as they are targeting military targets despite the narrative. Collateral damage is not inherently a war crime and people should learn what that means. Deliberately targeting civilians is a war crime. White phosphorous is only a war crime if they are signatory to the treaty banning its use which they are not nor are the United States or Russia.
The is a massive information war going on right now trying to pull public opinion to one side or the other and almost nothing can truly be trusted unless it comes from a primary source and even then they should be assessed for trustworthiness based on evidence and past performance.
This is also intended to take our attention away from Russia and Ukraine; just saying.
Israeli strikes are targeting locations where IDF instructed civilians to take shelter. This has been verified by BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67264703
They did not say they would not strike in the South and if you look at the spread of the strokes it is several orders of magnitude in the North. Nowhere in that article does it say where they were told to go in the south because they weren’t told a specific location and they have been significantly removed from the bloodshed. Additionally, they gave been removed from any ability to actually validate independently that what was struck was in fact not civilians so you are again taking Hamas at their word.
This is genocide, you dolt.
Define genocide then detail with trustworthy sources why this meets it.
I’m tired of people pontificating that this is genocide who cannot even define what genocide is. The other side are those that can define genocide but fully trust Hamas sources while distrusting Western sources.
… You dolt
From the UN:
The popular understanding of what constitutes genocide tends to be broader than the content of the norm under international law. Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements:
A mental element: the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such”; and
A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
Killing members of the group
https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-shot-dead-by-settler-while-harvesting-olives-in-west-bank-report/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/26/world/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-israel.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-67262375
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1143017
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/west-bank-palestinian-villages-israeli-army-settlers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/17/crisis-gaza-why-food-water-power-running-out
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the groupForcibly transferring children of the group to another groupThere’s a few from Al Jazeera but to prevent collective screeching i left it out.
Wow you can’t just bring up some made up noname nonsense like the UN, they’re antisemitic terrorists!
I only trust real sources like Israeli newspapers.
It stand for Unknown News-source. How can Hamas do this
There UN source simply defines them at war, not genocide. Name a war that did not produce suffering. The UN source does not show that they are intentionally targeting a people, just that they are suffering as they target the elected Hamas government.
Elected how many years ago? What was the average age in Gaza, again?
If we want to talk about elected governments, the genocidal Israeli government has much more legitimacy in claiming it represents it’s constituents.
Literally no one is questioning Israel’s legitimacy in government except Hamas. Nobody here in this thread is anyway.
You still missed the point though as they are not doing collective punishment. Collateral damage is not collective punishment.
isnt that’s hamas’s goal though? they want to drive Israeli into the sea and create a new arab caliphate. not going to get there without massive genocide.
In time of fighting demon, one should take note not to turn into demon themselves because by then we will have two demon.
I guess they didnt pay attention in class
Based on those definitions, what Israel went through is considered genocide against them and multiple times including the recent attacks as they absolutely targeted Israeli civilians.
This is an overly broad definition and includes literally every war ever. Air strikes against seemingly military targets that end up not being military targets does not constitute genocide. Not by a long shot.
Your UN article simply states that there is suffering. Name a single war where that wasn’t the case. Is all war genocide? Your other articles simply define that they are at war in response to a massive terrorist attack. That is not genocide by this definition as it does not define the difference between a justified defensive war and a genocide.
Israel was at war the second they were attacked. War is not pretty. It is not genocide. You would be far better off scoping your argument outside of the confines of the current conflict as they were attacked by an elected organization by Palestine.
Yes.
Yes, that’s literally what the Geneva Conventions is about.
One casualty, no. Twenty casualty, no, but that might be a war crime. Eight thousands casualty and rising, including hostages, that is a large group. It include targeting refugee camp, place of worship that house refugees, hospital, evacuation route, that is genocide.
Terrible argument because that’s not how genocide is defined, 0 point for the mental gymnastic. Genocide is a motive, not all war is genocide. But yes, a lot of war tend to consist the element of genocide because of one stronger group trying to eliminate a weaker group, including Israel - Palestine conflict, where Israel has been oppressing Palestine for decades.
Apply the context of the article to the definition of genocide.
Genocide did not define whether it’s defensive nor offensive, nor the Geneva Conventions give a shit about how you think it should be. As it stand, being the defensive party does not give them any right to commit the atrocity they’re currently doing.
Using your line of thinking, Hamas is not genocidal group because war is not pretty.
And in return, they murdered 8000 non-combatant of the people that they successfully dehumanised, just like all the conflict they have with Palestine for decades.
Holocaust Denial Trope also detailed on what people do to deny the holocaust, but lets swap some letter:
HolocaustPalestinian Genocide Have Been ExaggeratedJewsHamas Invented theHolocaustPalestinian Genocide for Financial and Political GainHolocaustPalestinian Genocide is aZionistHamas Political ToolJewsPalestinian are Responsible for Their Own PersecutionWouldn’t be too far off from what is happening today.
The key difference to your last paragraph and the current situation is the trustworthiness of the narrative. Hamas has been shown time and time again to show complete disregard to the truth when they make claims of war crimes and civilians killed by Israel. I am sorry that you have any trust in them at all but you should validate your sources. Every militant struck is claimed to be a civilian. Every single one.
Are you saying of the 8700 death, all of them are combatant? Or are you saying it’s okay to kill 100 non-combatant to get to that 1 combatant? How many combatant were kill? Do you have any source to claim otherwise? Or is it all out from your own ass?
It’s funny when a genocide denial trying to argue about genocide denial trope, they fit right into it.
Genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
See the
blown up hospital, the blown up camp, the thousands of dead Palestinian civilians, the refugees bombed while trying to use the designated route out, or maybe just the leaked report with details of Israel’s plan to ethically cleanse Palestinians in Gaza.Or, idk, just open your fucking eyes. You have to either be a fucking moron or intentionally ignorant, to both be aware of what’s happening over there and still think it’s not genocide.
Keep your head in the sand if you want. Fucking moron.
Edit: I’ll concede on the hospital. Anyone care to refute my other points, or maybe touch on today’s (11/1) bombing of the refugee camp?
The one Palestinian forced blew up? That’s still standing?
See everyone else’s comments on how inaccurate your statements are. We are not the ones with our heads in the sand. Stop trusting Palestinian government sources. It’s literally Hamas. There’s a reason that they beat the Israelis to the narrative. They do not validate their information. They say whatever makes Israel look bad, no matter what the truth is.
This is exactly the shit people are talking about. Palestine blew up a gathering of people at that hospital, then everyone just takes Palestine’s word for it and yells at Israel for something Palestine did.
ftfy
The elected government of Palestine, Hamas. Yes, that organization. Yet they still are targeting Hamas instead of intentionally enacting collective punishment.
Ftfy
Hope you remember in 20 years you were posting genocide denial rhetoric in your free time and feel ashamed. Same points used un many other genocides.
You know what’s funny about genocide denial rhetoric? It is exactly the same thing as the truth when there is no genocide. I trust Israel’s rhetoric infinitely more having seen the evidence myself.
Not one militant has been killed by Israel according to Hamas. They were all civilians. I don’t just mean in the current conflict but in the last 17 years. Find me one single example that wasn’t a high-profile commander that they could not explain away and then we can talk. When your entire army is made up of what you claim is civilians, genocide is an easy claim to make but a hard one to prove to those dying by your hand.
I think I will be just fine in 20 years and maybe we will actually have a Palestinian sovereign state when they do not have a literal terrorist organization as its elected government.
Do you believe UN reports about the “Hamas aligned side”? Or is that just some big conspiracy?
And by your own words: “Deliberately targeting civilians is a war crime.” “Do you remember that refugee camp they hit yesterday?” I’ll even concede and say sure, let’s assume there were Hamas terrorists hiding in the refugee camp. Let’s also assume there was terrorist-supporting infrastructure in the refugee camp. Guess what though. IT WAS STILL A FUCKING REFUGEE CAMP!
Let that sink in extra slow through your thick skull. Read through several times if you must. They knew there were innocent civilians in a refugee camp. They also suspected terrorists in said refugee camp. If you think the best and only option was to bomb that refugee camp, you’re wrong and a monster. Or is it that you’re simply a racist that thinks that every Palestinian is a terrorist simply for existing on the wrong “side”?
Let’s say we find out that there’s some terrorists hiding out in your city. Is the only solution to bomb the city? Yourself, your family, and your friends included? Let’s say we narrow it down to terrorists hiding on your block. What’s your solution? How much “collateral damage” (innocent civilian deaths) is acceptable to root out the terrorism that exists in your home town?
Edit: I would like to add that yes, this is distracting from the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I would also like to add that I recognize that I do not know nearly enough about this conflict to speak with authority on the subject. What I do know enough about though is that not every Palestinian is involved with nor supports Hamas. And not every Israeli is involved with nor supports the IDF. There are many Innocent people that have died, and are continuing to die from both sides of this conflict. And every one of those deaths is a tragedy. I wholeheartedly condemn Hamas’ killings of innocent civilians, and I wholeheartedly condemn Israel’s killings of innocent civilians. Both sides fucking suck and the people that are truly paying the price are the innocent people dying and losing loved ones. I don’t know what the answer is, or even if there is a “right answer”. Maybe a special ground operation would have minimized loss of life? I don’t know. What I definitely do know is that I will never be okay with the deaths of innocent people.
Bombing a building filled with civilians just because some arsehole who help do (or did) a terrible thing is hiding in there certainly sounds like collective punishment …
Hiding amongst your own civilians when you just killed a bunch of Jewish civilians could also be considered collective punishment. They are targeting the enemy. The enemy is commiting a war crime. If Israel intentionally targeted civilians not around the enemy because they elected Hamas as their government this enabling state sponsors terrorism, it would be considered collective punishment.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/30/1209308436/west-bank-israel-jenin-palestinians-killed-raids-airstrike-mosque
Israel is also attacking the West Bank, where there is no Hamas.
I have never understood this argument of terrorists “hiding” amongst civilians. Terrorists are people, that live in residential buildings, that pray in temples, and that go to hospitals when they are injured or ill.
My country, Spain, had a huge problem between the 1970s and the 2010s with the terrorist group ETA. But nobody was ever so fucking psycho as to suggest bombing the places in the Basque country were the terrorists lived. There are other ways of fighting against terrorism that don’t include the killing of civilians.
No. They are targeting civilian areas where there are maybe some enemies.
I am sure you would not feel the same way about inaction if your family were being held at gunpoint because of their beliefs. I am not sure you are arguing in good faith if you do not think that terrorists who killed thousands of people are legitimate targets. Extremely few people would agree with you and you are literally the first I have ever met. (Including many academics who are very pro-Palestine and anti-West)
lol, how is that going? Got many of the hostages released?
Yes actually and Israel’s actions so far have resulted in the capture of enough militants for a swap. Not that you could possibly acknowledge that being forced to swap militants for civilians is in any way a good look for the elected government of Palestine.
Do you also think the UK were wrong in how they handled the IRA? Should they have just bombed them?
Hamas is an elected government completely controlling the ground. The IRA was an insurgency and a completely different political situation.
“The other guy is doing it” isn’t a justification for committing war crimes. You are also considered a war criminal regardless.
No matter how many people my comments may annoy, at least I never typed up multiple paragraphs defending genocide.