Agreed on all counts. Thanks for the conversation and differing perspectives. I hope you have a good weekend!

Yes, I’d agree that for it to be a punishment entitlement would need to be involved - for example nobody feels punished that they didn’t win the lotto by buying one ticket.

Entitlement can take the form of the status quo, whether or not that’s justified is not a conversation I have enough critical thinking for.

I think what I haven’t seen cleared up in this thread is there are actually two reasons for 4b floating around - one is to try and bring about societal change by crashing the birth rate, but the other is simply out of safety and self-preservation of women. If we focus on the latter, it makes sense that women in more dangerous societies will choose 4b more often than those where they feel safer.

The conclusion I come to is that 4b will be more common in states that do not value the bodily autonomy/safety of women, which I’d say largely points to conservative states.

In a way, if safety and bodily autonomy is the reason for choosing 4b, it will self-regulate to not “punish” or affect those who generally vote to pass policies treating women properly.

I think there was some nuance that was lost in the call for “all” women to participate in 4b

A punishment requires a penalty or deprivation, and since dating is not a requirement, there can be no deprivation occurring.

Fwiw, a common example of a punishment removing something that is desired but not required is temporarily taking away X from a rowdy kid, be it phone, snacks, etc, which does poke a hole in that assertion.

Yeah, others have portrayed that as the goal here.

I just feel like I wouldn’t feel particularly attached to the fate of a country raised by brainwashing conservative families anyways, so it’s a scorched earth approach. Yes, you’ve broken the system, and it can be remade now, but those doing the remaking likely won’t carry your values…

Cute (I actually laughed, haha), but the assumption that meme makes is that it’s clear the gal doesn’t want to participate in the conversation due to body language.

There’s none of that when you’re commenting in a public politics community. You’re not posting in a community for 4b, for example. Additionally, you’re the one that made the initial comment.

By attempting to talk over and belittle others who respond you’re acting like the guy in the meme.

Bodily autonomy is the ability to choose 4b, not the reason to do so. Folks arguing against 4b have not disrespected the ability to do 4b. Therefore bodily autonomy is still respected.

The system which is made up of a bunch of kids raised in brainwashed conservative households.

I feel like this is, in part, voluntarily abstaining from passing your values down to the next generation, which night not have the intended effect.

So this is more scorched earth and punitive than it is trying to fix things?

Is a future dominated by kids raised by these families one worth going through all this effort for?

As I mentioned in another comment, one of the conservatives I know put their kid in a captain America outfit yesterday cuz he was “defending America”.

Aaaah, thanks!

I googled IBDYBD and the best I got was irritable bowel disease, lmao. I have no clue what that means, can you fill me in?

I don’t see the trump voters going for this at all is the problem.

So what happens when we have a generation of kids almost entirely raised by the 44% of women who voted for Trump into brainwashy conservative families? I already see enough 5 year olds attending trump boat parades and the such to give me concern. A conservative I know dressed their kid up as Capt America yesterday because they were “defending America” after the election.

Seems like it’d suck if an entire generation was raised in these families.

I wonder if this results in more kids being raised in brainwashy conservative families.

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Thanks, you too!

That’s a lot of selective interpreting right there, lol.

I don’t have the time or want to unravel everything - I’m only sharing evidence that good things are happening amidst all the doom and gloom, and they’re typically lead by Democrats.

That’s a strange line of reasoning to discourage voting. I just got my mail in ballot, I’ll probably be dropping it off the next time I have a day off.

Sorry, I don’t quite understand your point. Can you clarify?

Do the Democrats have unilateral control at the federal level? Seems far from that to me.

Also worth pointing out that it’s not third party candidates or Republicans passing these state policies. It’s democrats.

So I know it’s nice to doompost, but there certainly are good things to look for.

Some states are working towards making education more available. New Mexico has free tuition, period.

Rampant inflation for food, housing, and utilities with no end in sight

We’re almost back to historical norms for inflation.

Cops are still killing at will, and cop cities are becoming a thing

Some states have removed qualified immunity for cops.