Making a cruel institution 10% less cruel but maintaining/reinforcing its capacity, was a worse call than just knee capping the institution and gutting it as much as they could while they had the opportunity.
Perhaps it would have been divisive, but what does that matter when doing what they did mobilized the opposition’s base just as much.
Okay, so now we’re talking about the reality again?
The reality is that changing ICE requires congress, and a lot of who’s in congress is reactionary idiots, and so “kneecapping” ICE would have just not passed and accomplished nothing. And, there were genuine emergencies (overcrowding in ICE facilities, deliberate racism and cruelty by ICE, and the massive backlog of people waiting to get in the country with nowhere to go) that needed to be dealt with, which a performative effort to kneecap it that actually accomplished nothing would have done nothing at all to solve.
Not to mention all those people separated from their families which the Biden administration was trying to find and reunite. It’s just not that simple in reality. Accomplishing good things (and failing to accomplish some other realistic things which are also good things) is just not the same as deliberately causing all the cruelty in the system on purpose because you’re a terrible person. It’s like the Alice in Wonderland thing about mountains and valleys.
So you think the answer is that Biden should have torn up the constitution first, before Trump could do it?
I think we may have to agree to disagree. I think fixing a lot of the structural things that got us here (legalized bribery in government, massive corruption / dysfunction in media and education, a basic lack of real direct democracy, gilded age economic dysfunction, among other issues) would have been a better way. “I’ll seize control and fix it, trust me, look at the good things I’m doing” generally doesn’t work out real well even if the good things are on the side that you think they should be done for.
That’s actually one of the significant problems that came about during his admin: If you just let ICE “rot on the vine” (which was more or less what was happening, not even because of anything Biden did but just some additional factors in the world), then they keep arresting people but just keep them in increasingly overcrowded and shitty conditions. Which was precisely what happened. It was a fucking nightmare for anyone in detention, and some people died.
This just overall sounds like you have no idea how things work and are making sweeping proclamations about how easy things would be.
Okey dokey. If I ever make a simulator that lets you step into a political organization (like Sim City) and try various theories about how to make changes and what’s going to happen as a result, I’ll be sure to include this scenario, and I’ll send you a link so you can give it a shot.
Well, clearly, the strategy of rebuilding and reinforcing the system, in hopes that it would diffuse the right’s ability to campaign on immigration issues didn’t work.
Clearly the plan of playing respectability politics and hoping the right comes back to the table for “bipartisan reforms” didn’t work.
The democratic party establishment can keep claiming that they’re all about responsible governance, sensible strategy and practical methods, but if it keeps failing, is it really sensible, practical and reasonable? We can blame Harris’s consultants for leading her astray during the campaign, but it was Harris her self who adopted the strategy of leaning in to immigration policy as her big thing as VP.
Making a cruel institution 10% less cruel but maintaining/reinforcing its capacity, was a worse call than just knee capping the institution and gutting it as much as they could while they had the opportunity.
Perhaps it would have been divisive, but what does that matter when doing what they did mobilized the opposition’s base just as much.
Okay, so now we’re talking about the reality again?
The reality is that changing ICE requires congress, and a lot of who’s in congress is reactionary idiots, and so “kneecapping” ICE would have just not passed and accomplished nothing. And, there were genuine emergencies (overcrowding in ICE facilities, deliberate racism and cruelty by ICE, and the massive backlog of people waiting to get in the country with nowhere to go) that needed to be dealt with, which a performative effort to kneecap it that actually accomplished nothing would have done nothing at all to solve.
Not to mention all those people separated from their families which the Biden administration was trying to find and reunite. It’s just not that simple in reality. Accomplishing good things (and failing to accomplish some other realistic things which are also good things) is just not the same as deliberately causing all the cruelty in the system on purpose because you’re a terrible person. It’s like the Alice in Wonderland thing about mountains and valleys.
As the current administration is showing, it is entirely possible for the executive to unilaterally knee cap an organization.
So you think the answer is that Biden should have torn up the constitution first, before Trump could do it?
I think we may have to agree to disagree. I think fixing a lot of the structural things that got us here (legalized bribery in government, massive corruption / dysfunction in media and education, a basic lack of real direct democracy, gilded age economic dysfunction, among other issues) would have been a better way. “I’ll seize control and fix it, trust me, look at the good things I’m doing” generally doesn’t work out real well even if the good things are on the side that you think they should be done for.
don’t need to break the law to seriously gum up an organization.
And what good is playing by the spirit of the law, or maintaining political norms, when it’s been made very clear that no one else is going to.
If the option is to maintain a needlessly immigration cruel system, or let it rot on the vine. Let it rot on the vine and salt the earth under it.
That’s actually one of the significant problems that came about during his admin: If you just let ICE “rot on the vine” (which was more or less what was happening, not even because of anything Biden did but just some additional factors in the world), then they keep arresting people but just keep them in increasingly overcrowded and shitty conditions. Which was precisely what happened. It was a fucking nightmare for anyone in detention, and some people died.
This just overall sounds like you have no idea how things work and are making sweeping proclamations about how easy things would be.
Use the over crowded conditions and illegal behavior to fire staff from the organization, then don’t rehire replacements.
Direct them to stop arresting people. Divert internal funds to other things. Cut off their access to information to arrest prople.
A million things they could have done to rot the organization and diminish it’s capability to inflict cruelty.
Okey dokey. If I ever make a simulator that lets you step into a political organization (like Sim City) and try various theories about how to make changes and what’s going to happen as a result, I’ll be sure to include this scenario, and I’ll send you a link so you can give it a shot.
Well, clearly, the strategy of rebuilding and reinforcing the system, in hopes that it would diffuse the right’s ability to campaign on immigration issues didn’t work.
Clearly the plan of playing respectability politics and hoping the right comes back to the table for “bipartisan reforms” didn’t work.
The democratic party establishment can keep claiming that they’re all about responsible governance, sensible strategy and practical methods, but if it keeps failing, is it really sensible, practical and reasonable? We can blame Harris’s consultants for leading her astray during the campaign, but it was Harris her self who adopted the strategy of leaning in to immigration policy as her big thing as VP.