Phones should be turned off or left at home anyways when protesting. Here are my 10 commandments for engaging in protests:
1: never bring your wallet/ID. If you need to buy things, bring cash
2: either shut off your phone or leave it with your wallet. Recording police violence can be useful, in that case get the aclu app, a burner phone with the app, or an action camera
3: never speak to police under any circumstance
4: you can beat the charge but you can’t beat the ride
5: bring water, it’s more useful than for just drinking
6: bring hats, sunglasses, etc to avoid being identified by the state if it gets violent
7: wear good running shoes
8: know your rights, both federal and local, and when to use them
9: take out any contact lenses in case police use tear gas
10: stay aware of your surroundings; listen to picket line enforcers/community organizers
These are all fine in the US, but in other countries not carrying proof of identity can get you into some trouble, as can refusing to talk to the police. Know your local laws.
It is what people say about Germany but my teacher says that she didn’t have an id card for 10 years and only got one because of tour to a place organised by her university required to show id card to be put in their touring list. As far as her experience goes, no authority ever put her in trouble for not carrying an ID.
The same way that the police never put me in trouble for mu id card not having my address.
About not talking to the police, it is actually a right you have in Germany despite popular gossip saying otherwise.
The problem of not talking to the police is that the police can create reasons to put you in troubles for not doing so, as the police have the privilege of authority, power and legal/public trust.
But when questioned by the police, if it is worth, you have the right to have e lawer to answer it for you or to guide you on your answer according to laws.
If you’re protesting, just expect to be arrested. Police already have reasons to want to arrest you, so talking to police only really gives them material to prosecute you when you are taken into custody. Talking to them may reduce their temptation to arrest you, but it certainly increases the chances they can charge you.
Don’t talk to the police, full stop. Doesn’t matter if you’re completely innocent, DONT TALK TO THEM. This is good advice generally but essential if you are protesting.
what does 4 mean?
Even if you’re innocent or the charge is BS, you still have to go through the process of being arrested, transported, booked, held in jail and posting bail.
You can always be found not guilty in court, but if the police want to take you in, it’s better to just go willingly
The ride is the trip to jail.
Beating the charge means you are found not guilty in court.
Even if you are in the right and court will release you…that could be in 3 or 4 days time after you have spent time under arrest and had the “ride” to holding cell.
Protests in modern times should change. Protests should turn city blocks into crazy multiday parties that are able to evade police and attract more and more people the longer it goes on.
Bring hot tubs and beer. Have bands playing good music. Offer free massages to people who can’t protest but are walking home from work and are kind of on the fence until you get your greasy protest hands on them and give em a beer and a little pat pat
If you stop a modern man, hand them a beer with back massage, that man will likely die for you. Good luck to any cops trying to shut you down when you got the 11th floor of the wall street stick market coming to your rally
Are you planning on protesting anytime soon? When and where. Youve sold it to me.
never bring your … ID
IRC illegal in France and plenty of other EU countries. That alone will cause you issues, even if they can’t pin anything else on you.
never speak to police under any circumstance
Miranda rights aren’t universal. For example, in the UK authorities may draw adverse inferences based on silence.
No, you don’t need to have an ID: https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F11601
Yep but they can keep you or bring you un, because you cant make a proof of your identity. Its not entirely wrong
This is scary because it could be exploited very easily by bad actors and is a huge invasion of privacy
The French state is a bad actor already.
This is coming in the wake of protests against pension reform being rammed through and riots over police killing kids.
There’s zero reason to believe “being exploited by bad actors” isn’t the point.
“Bad actors” -> like the police?
If they are allowed to do these other countries will follow suit. This is a dangerous precedent in which no one is safe regardless of boarders.
During the 2020 protests in Portland, Or the US Marshalls flew a plane equipped cell phone snooping equipment over downtown for hours every day. The equipment acts as a mock cell tower so mobile phone traffic in the area gets routed through their tools before going to an actual tower. It also collects data from wifi in the area, in addition to whatever unknown abilities it has. This was around the time anonymous federal agents were picking up people off the streets in white vans and hiding in bushes shooting pepperballs at people walking by.
They should have tons of audio and video of the insurrection too then right? Or is this only a tool we use on democrats?
While I agree the right gets more of a pass, the capitol does actually have its own cell network and they did bust people whose phones were connected inside.
The major difference between January 6th and Portland was that on J 6 the police presence was minimal while Portland had paramilitary outfits roaming the streets.
I’m not buying a phone that rats me out.
Show me you have my back apple / android
Only solution is an older phone with custom ROM
@hydra @Shartacus or a linux phone, with kaios / pmos. Still not ready for everyone, but I hope it will come soon enought
FYI KaiOS is spyware garbage moreso than stock Android w/ gapps. Download a GSI rom if you want to run stock android on most phones post Android 8.1
@stratosmacker ho I have learn about this system only a few days ago and had no time to look further. That explain why they advertise with so much google app… thanks for the info :)
This is the same government that says using an ad blocker, vpn, custom rom, linux and or encrypted messaging service puts you at higher suspicion of being a terrorist.
I see them enacting these policies now as the large number of pro labor protests fighting the government all over the country on pensions “reform”.
Well I’m sure terrorists don’t like seeing ads either but I’m not quite sure how they came to the conclusion that using an ad blocker makes you a terrorist.
France is a bit of a strange country though.
My guess in their logic is that you can’t be ad tracked.
That is of course if you believe that this blatantly authoritarian measure was actually done in response to terrorism.
They’re likely right for that assumption. Modern day terrorism I think would require a basic ability to use computers. It doesn’t make it likely, but more likely is probably right. I don’t expect much organized terrorism that’s not going to use some of those tools.
Who looked at the patriot act and thought that was a good idea?
Did anyone actually read the article or did we all just head straight for the comments section after reading the headline?
If we team up, only one of us has to read the article and can write the TLDR so we can hit the comments quicker!
this became reddit faster than i expected!
Read it, didn’t give information to dampen the initial outrage. Six months only for a dozen or so cases and not against doctors or journalist doesn’t sound that convincing to me. A judge must grant permission also doesn’t help imo as the act is still is a major privacy violation to all those who interact with the subject in any way.
The French government is pulling a “if you got nothing to hide, don’t worry about it”.
They say it’s gonna be limited to “when appropriate” but history shows whenever this sort of system is implemented, it’s scope of “when appropriate” gets broaden pretty quickly.
Did you? Headline sums it nicely to be honest. Only it’s not just phones. It opens all same horror show of digital freedoms / privacy the headline implies. Awful development.
I read the article, what’s in it that’s not all there in the title? The only thing I can think of is that they “claim” it’s only going to be used for specific things. But we all know how that goes…
How about the fact that it needs a judge’s approval and that surveillance is restricted to very specific cases for a limited amount of time?
When people hold conspiracy theories about the government being some monolithic engine of evil, or people who don’t believe government should exist because “muh freedoms”, any time an arm of the government is used as a check they just don’t care. It doesn’t matter that their beliefs have no basis in reality - they will dismiss any evidence contrary to their beliefs because it’s dangerous to their worldview. It wouldn’t matter if 1,000,000 warrants are denied for every 1 warrant approved - the one approval is all the evidence needed to claim tyranny.
You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to have serious misgivings about anyone, government or otherwise, being able to tap into your phone for any reason. They regularly go to the wrong damn house with warrants signed by judges and you want to trust them with full access to cameras inside our homes?
Except these warrants aren’t granted for “any reason” and I’m fairly sure you know that as well. Like I implied in my comment, the government is not some monolithic entity where all government employees conspire to deprive you, John Q. Public, of all of your rights.
My claim is only that no matter how well implemented a program may be, certain individuals will still claim corruption where none statistically exists. The whole point of our society is to implement laws, execute those laws, evaluate if those laws are having a positive affect on mitigating the problem it’s meant to solve, and change the law to address shortcomings or unnecessary bits.
Of course we should all be skeptical of the process, but arguing against change because we don’t feel like the results are going to be what we like is irrational. Past behavior is important to keep in mind but let’s not exaggerate and wax hyperbolic. It’s simple: If our elected officials aren’t implementing and reevaluating laws based on evidence/results, then it is our responsibility to remove those officials from power. If the roadblock to removing those in power are your fellow citizens, it’s your responsibility to help gain consensus in your community.
Tearing down, or dismissing, the system is not reasonable; that’s partly how in US politics we’ve become so polarized. People don’t have patience anymore for conversation or debate; they want immediate and immaculate change with 100% certainty and that’s unrealistic. Change is gradual and is never going to get it right out of the gate.
So come on, if you’re French, engage with your community and your elected officials to ensure that this law is implemented (or retracted) as honest as possible and stay engaged. Opinions without reasonable action is how fascism takes hold. I’m not sure how this law will turn out but I’m willing to be surprised that it gets implemented honestly. And if you’re not French, well, then I’m pretty sure yours and my opinions on how that citizenry chooses to govern is none of our business (outside of gross universal human rights violations and this is nowhere near the same galaxy).
It bugs me that people will bitch about privacy all day but won’t do anything about it. Most people just go
Macron has also blamed video games for violence. He has a predilection for consorting with despots and dictators. He really acts like a conservative through and through. Still, at least they are open about what they want to do, unlike other countries that are currently doing the same thing and not really admitting to it.
The NSA did it first
Aww ye! Can’t wait to get busted because those bouncing boobies shown in the video am enjoying does not follow the “rights of freedom” written by the law #42069. WOO FREEDOM!
Passing laws that violate peoples privacy should only be passed by a vote from the people. This is bullshit
If they ever convince the manufacturer to enable these features, it’s time to leave that manufacturer
What kind of Orwellian shit is the french government pulling?
France following in NSW foot steps
At least what the French are doing is in the open. I remember when the
USEchelon program was leaked, what is their government up to now?The fact that they’re doing it out in the open is what really concerns me.
What are they doing in the dark if they’re okay with telling on themselves about this?
Read the article. Title is clickbait. It’s only with approval from a judge. You know, alternatively they could just arrest and imprison the person, which is what every country is doing. Not saying it’s without worrying, but there’s important nuance that most are missing.
P.S.
Absolute extremist attitudes like “nobody should be able” and so on, have absolutely no place in modern society. There’s always nuance. Libertarianism doesn’t work, and laws must be enforced. It sucks, but when there are forces that want to hurt people and destabilize societies, you can’t go by the rule that everyone is a saint. The world will punish this attitude.
Yes, the world isn’t perfect, but for ducks sake, quit sensationalizing anecdotes and representing them as “this always happens”. That’s dishonest.
Uh huh, and if a rubber stamp judge gives wiretapping permission every time the cops ask for it?
I live in France. The government here is using every single tool they have to prosecute radical leftists and environmentalists while ignoring the fact that more than 60 % of the police force has fascist adjacent ideals. I do not want these people spying on me, period. This is not some libertarian horseshit, trust me.
Unfortunately extremely true… This guy calling an clickbait…
Whataboutism is a hell of a drug. I’m afraid people in many countries are so used to not having those freedoms that they look at us weird for trying to keep them.
I get your opinion but you have to account for the fact that it’s not Le Pen who’s in the chair. And France is actually ranked quite high on the civil liberties. While I get your perspective, I believe that it’s exaggerated.
Our ranking is unfortunately not getting any better, just look at what is currently happening with Les soulèvements de la terre.
I understand Le Pen would be worse, I truly do. I actually voted against her in the last two elections. But imagine Le Pen in power, which is very likely to happen soon, with all those legal framework already in place. She is going to have the mother of all field days.
You absolutely can find my view to be an exaggeration. Some part of me hope it is. But I’m quite worried about our future as a country right now.
Well it’s good that you care. It’s the multitude of opinions and open discussion, what makes a democracy work.
Unfortunately we have siloes of opinions, so you’re pretty much either trying to yell in an echo chamber or at best, argue with a moderate like me. The moment you’re faced with the people leaning right, some of the rhetoric might be scary for them, and they might retract further into their own silo, where more and more extremist views are tolerated.
The key to a functioning society, is moderation in enforcement of law (so that the state continues to be the only one who is able to, and expected to exert force), and understanding of each other so that it remains an open dialog.
I’m originally from a country where society has degraded into 2 irreconcilable camps, and it got to the point where I can’t even stand my own parents because their echo chambers had lead them to extreme extremes. And I’m not the only one.
Right now what is paramount is a government that optimizes social well-being (think Finland), and the enforcement of those laws, because everyone from Putin (and the general club of autocrats) to fundamentalist fascists everywhere else, want to destabilize that right now. A prosperous democracy is a threat to all of them. Whether you like it or not, we are in the middle of an ideological war.
Well thank you for the thoughtful, respectful and engaging response.
I do not advocate for the state surrendering its authority, far from it. The problem lies, to my mind, within some very abuse prone legal frameworks that are currently being put into place. For example, in France, local “préfets” (which are unelected officials that act as local governors) have been steadily gaining more and more powers that cannot be democratically countermended, or at great expense: they can limit people’s movements, forbid demonstrations, etc.
That could be seen as a necessary measure against the rising polarization you talk about (a point on which we agree btw, 100%), but then again whenever the far right happens to be the one doing the agitating, the préfets are suspiciously slow to act.
For example, in Paris, the prefet did not forbid a neo Nazi march ending in an Aryan rock concert whereas a week before that he had forbidden multiple démonstrations against Macron’s pension reforms. And the list goes on. Our minister of the interior refused yesterday to condemn a police union campaign labelling rioters in Parisian suburbs as “pests to be eradicated”. This is not moderate.
Macron is not really a moderate. He acts like one and manages to feel like one from abroad perhaps. But here he is more and more leaning towards the exact type of authoritarian doctrin a moderate should, as you do, strive to impede. And the thing is, his actions, and the general apathy of many towards them, are reinforcing Le Pen’s chances come 2027. And that scares me.
Can we ban clickbait
If the good guys can do it, even by the books, imagine what the bad guys can do.
Laws must be enforced, but not by treating privacy like a wet rag.
Persinally I hope we’ll see some mainstream devices that comes with a hardware toggle for the mic and a manual privacy shutter for the cameras.
Keep in mind that privacy is really a recent concept. Human societies never had privacy before the industrial revolution. Everybody knew everybody else and what they were doing. I do want my privacy, but modern technology makes it too easy to create and grow any organization that can rival the state in power. While we do have the power to influence and control the state, we have no power over competing organizations that act like authoritarian states.
There needs to be a balance, an amount of power that the state can exercise, that’s just right for keeping it as a monopoly on violence. Absolute privacy, where the state has transparency, is taking away all the power and advantages from the state and gives them to whoever wants to challenge that state.
In other words, nuance.
How do you say “All Cops Are Bastards” in French?
No an exact equivalent, but a common catchphrase during protests is “Police partout, Justice nulle part” : “Police everywhere, Justice nowhere”.
