I remember my father being so angry about Clinton that the veins in his neck and face were bulging. He thought Clinton should be hanged, at the time, for adultery and betraying the country.
Now this fat orange fuck is worshiped. I will never understand how they fell for this. The moral compromise needed to support a clown show.
Oh good grief, of course they fell for it. Not that I don’t blame them for it. However, they absolutely fell for a con. To say otherwise is immature or unrealistic black and white thinking.
I’m angry with them, will likely never trust or respect them again. They’re humans just like we are, they aren’t acting, they aren’t completely indecent, and so on.
Just because the fascist side dehumanizes its enemies doesn’t mean we should. It’s also not very effective when you’re trying to predict what they’ll do and how they’ll react. You have to be able to understand the minds of your antagonists to effectively counter them.
Honestly? No part of you thinks that they might just have a darker side that you’re uncomfortable contemplating exists? If so then you are far more optimistic about the human condition than I am. Not disagreeing with your assessment; you obviously know them. I’m just pessimistic that a contradiction of morality of such magnitude can inhabit a single person’s mind. It seems impossible to me to arrive at such conclusions and not have walked down some truly dark, evil paths.
Heart of Darkness and all that? I feel like I’m pretty good at reading people, continue to get better at it. Most people, on an interpersonal level, are good. There are evil people, sociopathic or narcissistic, I usually notice them by their weird affect. Not all the sociopaths are necessarily evil, you just can’t trust them.
Average people don’t usually try to hurt people they know. They will be lazy in their thinking, they’ll hurt people they know through selfishness, average people can do bad things. However, everyone is the hero of their own story. For the most part, people believe they are good and doing good.
Anyhow, part of what makes this so painful is seeing good people get twisted by the propaganda. For instance, the subsurface racism, most of these people were ashamed of their racist views. The racism was exploited and used to short circuit around logic. I watched my grandfather go from a kind and gentle man to using the N-word and spewing Hannity talking points.
So, I blame average people, I think they were mostly good. They fell for an obvious con, chose to listen to the darker parts of their nature instead of using logic. Does that make them evil now? IDK, maybe. Propaganda is a hell of a drug. They were weak. They probably aren’t ever coming back.
It’s a good, admirable perspective that you have, truly, and a shame about the averages in our society. I would, and will, wish for more with your outlook.
They’re not all stupid. Again, that’s a comforting lie we tell ourselves. I’ve personally known engineers, a Colonel, a cabinet maker, and C-suite execs that have all gone down the rabbit hole. They have willfully drank down the propaganda and are willfully ignorant but not all of these people are stupid.
I mean, at a high level, I guess so. At human level where these are real people with relationships and thoughts and feelings, it is mind blowing.
Some of them now approve of everything they stood against. Whatever the propaganda that got them there, it’s wild. These are people that I respected and thought had wisdom and they have fallen for such a shallow con.
Cults wish they had this kind of power and reach. I agree that it has cult like characteristics, but it tolerates divergent ideology as long the orange fucker is venerated. I can’t decide if it’s something new or is regular old fascism, I lack the historical background to know.
i sounded kinda cynical but I actually agree with your sentiment, on a more personal level. i have several friends whose families have been split apart (actual people moving away and excommunicated) as a result of the cult like obedience conservatives have tapped into. loyalty to television personalities over actual living breathing grandkids and siblings. truly mind blowing.
the systematic brainwashing of many people using ragebait, disinformation, and targeted messaging has revealed a deep corruption in the media ecosystem and shown us how easily many of us can be convinced of opposite views we once held sacred. there’s a principal in psychology called “belief change blindness” which essentially shows that rather than admit we were wrong, we change our minds and just forget that it happened, instead creating an internal narrative that we’ve always believed the thing we currently believe.
im convinced that the most successful political operatives in modern times have weaponized our own psychological weaknesses against us, knowingly, in the same way that game developers use rng loot drop mechanics to tap into gambling addiction reward centers.
I’m not going to rehash the horror of watching family and friends go down the rabbit hole. It’s a big ball of grief that comes in waves.
As to your supposition that psychological weaknesses were weaponized: I completely agree. I think historians will focus on it as evidence is available and time goes by, it will be considered obvious.
Clinton was in favor of abortion and women’s rights. As Trump is against both, he is ‘God working in mysterious ways’ and therefore should be seen as a sign of divine providence.
I remember my father being so angry about Clinton that the veins in his neck and face were bulging. He thought Clinton should be hanged, at the time, for adultery and betraying the country.
Now this fat orange fuck is worshiped. I will never understand how they fell for this. The moral compromise needed to support a clown show.
They fell for nothing. This is the expression of their evil nature, full stop.
If anything you’re falling for their act! Stop assuming decency or rational self interest is at work in the math they do, it isn’t.
Oh good grief, of course they fell for it. Not that I don’t blame them for it. However, they absolutely fell for a con. To say otherwise is immature or unrealistic black and white thinking.
I’m angry with them, will likely never trust or respect them again. They’re humans just like we are, they aren’t acting, they aren’t completely indecent, and so on.
Just because the fascist side dehumanizes its enemies doesn’t mean we should. It’s also not very effective when you’re trying to predict what they’ll do and how they’ll react. You have to be able to understand the minds of your antagonists to effectively counter them.
Honestly? No part of you thinks that they might just have a darker side that you’re uncomfortable contemplating exists? If so then you are far more optimistic about the human condition than I am. Not disagreeing with your assessment; you obviously know them. I’m just pessimistic that a contradiction of morality of such magnitude can inhabit a single person’s mind. It seems impossible to me to arrive at such conclusions and not have walked down some truly dark, evil paths.
Heart of Darkness and all that? I feel like I’m pretty good at reading people, continue to get better at it. Most people, on an interpersonal level, are good. There are evil people, sociopathic or narcissistic, I usually notice them by their weird affect. Not all the sociopaths are necessarily evil, you just can’t trust them.
Average people don’t usually try to hurt people they know. They will be lazy in their thinking, they’ll hurt people they know through selfishness, average people can do bad things. However, everyone is the hero of their own story. For the most part, people believe they are good and doing good.
Anyhow, part of what makes this so painful is seeing good people get twisted by the propaganda. For instance, the subsurface racism, most of these people were ashamed of their racist views. The racism was exploited and used to short circuit around logic. I watched my grandfather go from a kind and gentle man to using the N-word and spewing Hannity talking points.
So, I blame average people, I think they were mostly good. They fell for an obvious con, chose to listen to the darker parts of their nature instead of using logic. Does that make them evil now? IDK, maybe. Propaganda is a hell of a drug. They were weak. They probably aren’t ever coming back.
It’s a good, admirable perspective that you have, truly, and a shame about the averages in our society. I would, and will, wish for more with your outlook.
Stupid people are easy to manipulate.
Many of these aren’t stupid people. That’s a cop out we tell ourselves to feel superior. Willful ignorance is closer to the truth.
I’m not saying that the people running the party are stupid. But the ones falling for their shit are just plain stupid.
They’re not all stupid. Again, that’s a comforting lie we tell ourselves. I’ve personally known engineers, a Colonel, a cabinet maker, and C-suite execs that have all gone down the rabbit hole. They have willfully drank down the propaganda and are willfully ignorant but not all of these people are stupid.
Smart people fall for lies, cons, and cults all the time - it is foolish to believe anyone is immune to such things because they’re “too smart”.
they do whatever the ultra wealthy tell them to do.
ideology is not a functional concept in modern politics. it’s all vibes and manipulation in the service of the 1%
Many have referenced Nineteen Eighty-Four without reading it, and ironically then engaging in Doublethink.
I mean, at a high level, I guess so. At human level where these are real people with relationships and thoughts and feelings, it is mind blowing.
Some of them now approve of everything they stood against. Whatever the propaganda that got them there, it’s wild. These are people that I respected and thought had wisdom and they have fallen for such a shallow con.
Sounds like a cult.
Cults wish they had this kind of power and reach. I agree that it has cult like characteristics, but it tolerates divergent ideology as long the orange fucker is venerated. I can’t decide if it’s something new or is regular old fascism, I lack the historical background to know.
i sounded kinda cynical but I actually agree with your sentiment, on a more personal level. i have several friends whose families have been split apart (actual people moving away and excommunicated) as a result of the cult like obedience conservatives have tapped into. loyalty to television personalities over actual living breathing grandkids and siblings. truly mind blowing.
the systematic brainwashing of many people using ragebait, disinformation, and targeted messaging has revealed a deep corruption in the media ecosystem and shown us how easily many of us can be convinced of opposite views we once held sacred. there’s a principal in psychology called “belief change blindness” which essentially shows that rather than admit we were wrong, we change our minds and just forget that it happened, instead creating an internal narrative that we’ve always believed the thing we currently believe.
im convinced that the most successful political operatives in modern times have weaponized our own psychological weaknesses against us, knowingly, in the same way that game developers use rng loot drop mechanics to tap into gambling addiction reward centers.
I’m not going to rehash the horror of watching family and friends go down the rabbit hole. It’s a big ball of grief that comes in waves.
As to your supposition that psychological weaknesses were weaponized: I completely agree. I think historians will focus on it as evidence is available and time goes by, it will be considered obvious.
Clinton was in favor of abortion and women’s rights. As Trump is against both, he is ‘God working in mysterious ways’ and therefore should be seen as a sign of divine providence.
I wish I was joking.