Have they forgotten all the Trump supporters who have killed, attacked, and threatened both prominent Democrats and opponents of this president in recent years? I haven't – and I have a list of them.
When was the last “regular murder” of this kind—against a political figure of such prominence? Say all you want about their bigotry, I agree, but that is currently mainstream politics. Like it or not, the kids were not prominent, and lives that are not prominent get buried despite their status as preventable horror.
Dehumanization does nothing but feed into the bad faith right wing’s smearing of progressivism as a whole. Even uprisings need to consider opponents as capable of thought and assume more than constant misery. Just using different words is not going to change reality for the better, especially if said words are misleading. This is the kind of rhetoric that can be used to justify them shooting us. It’s just more excuses for Trump to create a police state.
I understand what you’re saying but Trump just canceled his trip to Chicago so, I’d say you are proven wrong. The more this happens the more they fear, And since it is them getting hurt – I don’t see any problem here. You sound quite like a conservative, protecting conservatives. You should be ashamed of yourself
The threat of a police state and arbitrary removal is enough for progressive activists to defend against already; encouraging possible grassroots 4chan snipers on every building is not going to help. Furthermore, this shooting has allowed the Trump administration to prominently represent those like you with “If you read this, you are gay LMAO”. (I am bi and I absolutely do not intend to say LGBTQ+ representation is bad for the movement; I am saying that this representation of us as closed-minded childish trolls encourages the right to make statements like those the Zeteo article is criticizing and act on them to “preserve national order”.)
We’re under the whims of the state. We don’t have an uprising. Until then, we should preserve the parts of the state that actually protect us as the only defense against the tools of oppression. If you want to debate people no matter how good or bad your arguments are without getting shot, you should have a problem with this, because the existence of the state precludes chipping away MAGA figureheads’ bunkers without having the same done to progressive figures. Having to see bad arguments reach people all day is much better than those people pointing a gun at you.
I think this thread represents other aspects of my views here well:
Didn’t the media and far right call democrats « rats » in the wake of those events? Saying they would come for « them »? (Who?)
To your initial question, political violence under all forms is extreme in the us right now, and it’s only the logical continuity of all the previous events. Including, to answer your first question, the murder of two democrat representatives less than two months ago.
Let’s not forget the soldiers in the streets, nor the pizza deliveries to democrats houses to scare them, nor the ice raids… nazis reap what they sow.
I agree with what you say, and I don’t think it conflicts with what I say above. (I talk about the Minnesotan State Legislators below, too; I disagree that it is at the same prominence.)
I didn’t hear about them before they died. And Turning Point is pretty much the MAGA youth league. Dismissing the US’s most influential MAGA voices as just “a YouTube personality” is not doing anything any favor.
Just because he was prominent in your life doesn’t mean he was to others. I’ve had to explain to more than a few people who he was since they’d never heard of him at all.
I didn’t mean to say you or anyone else here has an ulterior motive or something, sorry if it came off that way; I’m saying that just like whiwake is here to discuss things relevant to progressive politics I’m here to discuss things relevant to progressive politics.
unfortunately, our current hierarchical society does ascribe lower value to them than e.g. Cenk Uygur, founder of The Young Turks. i’m not saying Kirk as nearly as good as Uygur, but they have had a similar impact.
When was the last “regular murder” of this kind—against a political figure of such prominence? Say all you want about their bigotry, I agree, but that is currently mainstream politics. Like it or not, the kids were not prominent, and lives that are not prominent get buried despite their status as preventable horror.
You can’t murder a Nazi. It’s just putting them down.
Dehumanization does nothing but feed into the bad faith right wing’s smearing of progressivism as a whole. Even uprisings need to consider opponents as capable of thought and assume more than constant misery. Just using different words is not going to change reality for the better, especially if said words are misleading. This is the kind of rhetoric that can be used to justify them shooting us. It’s just more excuses for Trump to create a police state.
I understand what you’re saying but Trump just canceled his trip to Chicago so, I’d say you are proven wrong. The more this happens the more they fear, And since it is them getting hurt – I don’t see any problem here. You sound quite like a conservative, protecting conservatives. You should be ashamed of yourself
Assuming that’s what you’re talking about, Trump already talked about announcing sending the National Guard to Memphis instead of Chicago the night before the shooting; see https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/chicago-national-guard-deployment-in-question-ice-immigration-crackdown/.
The threat of a police state and arbitrary removal is enough for progressive activists to defend against already; encouraging possible grassroots 4chan snipers on every building is not going to help. Furthermore, this shooting has allowed the Trump administration to prominently represent those like you with “If you read this, you are gay LMAO”. (I am bi and I absolutely do not intend to say LGBTQ+ representation is bad for the movement; I am saying that this representation of us as closed-minded childish trolls encourages the right to make statements like those the Zeteo article is criticizing and act on them to “preserve national order”.)
We’re under the whims of the state. We don’t have an uprising. Until then, we should preserve the parts of the state that actually protect us as the only defense against the tools of oppression. If you want to debate people no matter how good or bad your arguments are without getting shot, you should have a problem with this, because the existence of the state precludes chipping away MAGA figureheads’ bunkers without having the same done to progressive figures. Having to see bad arguments reach people all day is much better than those people pointing a gun at you.
I think this thread represents other aspects of my views here well:
https://kbin.melroy.org/m/anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com/t/1184816/Kirk-Assassination-Propaganda-of-the-Deed-and-Luigi
I don’t agree. We need more 4chan Nazis popping people who aren’t “right wing” enough. The problem solves itself. I’m firm I’m my opinion.
chances are they’ll pop progressives instead. the charlottesville rally was called “unite the right”, after all
But they haven’t. So…
the classic example is charlottesville
a more recent one is the shootings of Minnesota State Legislators
Didn’t the media and far right call democrats « rats » in the wake of those events? Saying they would come for « them »? (Who?)
To your initial question, political violence under all forms is extreme in the us right now, and it’s only the logical continuity of all the previous events. Including, to answer your first question, the murder of two democrat representatives less than two months ago.
Let’s not forget the soldiers in the streets, nor the pizza deliveries to democrats houses to scare them, nor the ice raids… nazis reap what they sow.
I agree with what you say, and I don’t think it conflicts with what I say above. (I talk about the Minnesotan State Legislators below, too; I disagree that it is at the same prominence.)
Like 2 months ago in Minnesota.
Right? They totally forgot about them because they just wanna be mad at something. They don’t fucking care lol
The two state lawmakers were as prominent as Charlie Kirk?
No you’re right that’s insane. Two elected officials are obviously way more prominent than a YouTube personality.
I didn’t hear about them before they died. And Turning Point is pretty much the MAGA youth league. Dismissing the US’s most influential MAGA voices as just “a YouTube personality” is not doing anything any favor.
Just because he was prominent in your life doesn’t mean he was to others. I’ve had to explain to more than a few people who he was since they’d never heard of him at all.
and they’ve heard of the minnesotan lawmakers before they died? even if they have, way less people have heard of them compared to hearing of kirk.
What is your goal with these comments you are making?
nothing more than the goals of the other commenters here
I didn’t mean to say you or anyone else here has an ulterior motive or something, sorry if it came off that way; I’m saying that just like whiwake is here to discuss things relevant to progressive politics I’m here to discuss things relevant to progressive politics.
It sure seems like you hold his life in greater regard than theirs.
unfortunately, our current hierarchical society does ascribe lower value to them than e.g. Cenk Uygur, founder of The Young Turks. i’m not saying Kirk as nearly as good as Uygur, but they have had a similar impact.
Stating plain truths.
Lemmy: “I don’t like that!” <smashes downvote>
Y’all children.
Welcome to *realpolitik" my friends. Doesn’t matter if you like it or upvote it, it’s real.