Based on my searches, I could only find 3* controllers that have this feature (and interestingly, they all do it differently). There’s the new 8BitDo Pro 3, where the face buttons are magnetic, the GameSir Supernova, where you have to remove the faceplate to swap the buttons, and the GameSir Tarantula Pro/T3 Pro, where there’s a motor that swaps the ABXY layout.
This seems like a pretty simple feature that would be really useful for multiplatform controllers. Lots of controllers advertise that they work with PC, Xbox, Switch, Android, etc., but very few of them give you the option to physically swap the ABXY layout. They usually have one layout or the other. I would get not having these features on a really budget controller, but there are some controllers that are really expensive and don’t have this neat little button swap thing (instead opting for gimmicky things like a screen)
edit: * There’s actually 4**, I forgot about the Nyxi Flexi!
edit 2: ** Nope, it’s five***, the Gulikit KK3 Max has replaceable button caps! Very cool!
edit 3: *** Actually, the older KK2 Pro also seems to have this feature too, as well as a few other older Gulikit controllers, so I guess it’s >6? That’s cool. With four different companies (GuliKit, 8BitDo, GameSir, and Nyxi) offering at least one controller with this feature, I guess it’s not as rare as I thought. Who knew?
Personally, I’d prefer if games and such would use universal face button glyphs on-screen.
I’ve switched back and forth between Xbox, Nintendo, and PlayStation controllers so much that I really don’t have a mental map of which button is which, and in game I’m usually not looking at my controller to be able to tell.
Press the X button.
Wait am I playing PlayStation or Xbox or Nintendo.
It’s weird but they are all different. I’ve never had an issue where I see an Xbox X and hit the PS X. Normally if a game wants X(PS Flavour) the X itself is blue, potentially with a black circle around it. If a game shows you an X(Xbox Flavour) it shows a blue circle with a different blue X inside. Nintendo generally just shows a top button glyph or if they do show the X it’s usually monochrome, except for Americana flavoured SNES which was just top purple and since GC had the vertical kidney bean X… Well, Nintendo only recently became a problem I suppose.
So, basically, the in-game glyphs do differentiate themselves.
Yeah glyphs ftw. Helps newbies not have to look down, just see position of button, and helps with 3rd party controllers too.
Also will save the devs a couple of quid with porting
At least playstation uses a visually distinct set of symbols so you can’t confuse them with the other two. I think it’s really annoying that Xbox and Nintendo both use ABXY, but swapped for some reason. I grew up with Nintendo, so that layout makes “more sense” to me than the unfamiliar Xbox layout, but yeah, I would prefer either a universal layout (maybe neither ABXY or the shapes, perhaps something different that everyone could agree on? Because if you chose the Xbox layout, fans of the Nintendo layout would get mad and vice versa)
What should that universal layout be though? Maybe the cardinal directions, ESNW? Or perhaps something unique like IJKL? Or maybe the starting letters of colours (RGBA? Transparent button would be cool. CMYK? Printer ink buttons!) Or perhaps not letters, maybe symbols? Like mountain (jagged teeth), sea (wavy line), wind (swirly line), and stone (filled in circle)? Or punch, kick, special move (maybe energy blast), and different special move (maybe healing)?
What should that universal layout be though?
Just a picture of 3 of the 4 buttons with one highlighted (e.g. left/right with bottom highlighted) would be simple enough.
This is what Switch UI does, in order to accomodate sideways JoyCons.
That’s basically what I had in mind. Steam has this as an option for the big picture mode UI and I like it a lot.
I always assumed Nintendo’s buttons are that way round because Japanese is read right-to-left.
The symbols thing already exists though: that’s PlayStation. It’s well documented that the four symbols even had original meanings: a square for menus, a triangle to represent a camera’s FOV, and O/X for yes/no, respectively.
You’ve got to admit it’s pretty funny that we’ve whittled the field down to three console manufacturers and they all put the ‘X’ button in a different place.
well if you make the playstation layout the universal layout both Xbox and Nintendo layout fans will hate you. Interesting the PS symbols had actual meanings rather than being somewhat arbitrary like with ABXY (though you could argue A means accept/action and B means back)
I think the nintendo layout looks like it makes more sense since it’s AB XY when you read top to bottom, whereas with Xbox layout it’s left-to-right but also bottom-to-top. Idk, I guess it’s all just preference (+ the fact I grew up with nintendo so there is certainly a bias towards that layout)
That’s right, circle was accept because drawing a circle in Japanese is their equivalent to a tick, x is cancel like a cross, I think the square was supposed to look like a piece of paper, I can’t remember what the triangle symbolised.
someone said that triangle used to mean FOV (switching between first person and third person, for example))
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What I’m much more salty about is that controller manufacturers all seem to go out of their way to actively prevent you from just taking the controller apart and rearranging the face buttons as you see fit, usually by way of keying them with little fins around their sides when otherwise there would be nothing to prevent you from doing so. My Gamesir T4 Mini is this way and it’s infuriating, because even if you have Steam Input set to Switch controller mode, or whatever, half of your games inevitably give you the button prompt for that position on an Xbox controller anyway, and the other half respect the positions of the Nintendo style layout and you never know which is which until it’s too late. For PC gaming I’d much rather just reorganize the thing into the XBox layout which seems to be the most compatible default for games and leave it that way.
Why do it in hardware when you can do in software without re-engineering the buttons? Hardware engineering is trickier, so there’s fewer options.
Xbox Elite controller has full button remapping for example. Won’t cover every platform, but it’ll do a fair few.
I like its monochrome buttons to save the need for visually remapping. Same with the Switch, where they need to be, since joycons can be held in several orientations.
I don’t look down at my controller to read the button labels. Swapping them physically makes no sense to me, more moving parts to complicate manufacturing for a feature that I’m never going to look down at.
I use a black 8BitDo Pro 2, dark enough that the button labels that technically exist aren’t readable. Looks nicer that way, don’t need 'em.
I grew up a Nintendo kid, that’s what’s ingrained in my head, and it is a bit of a nuisance sometimes that everything on PC expects Xbox layout. But I just have it remapped in software, problem solved, no reason why I would need to physically move the buttons in hardware.
fair enough. Someone should make a controller with no labels at all and they could just be different colours. I agree with the latter point, I always associate A with the right button, X with the top button.
You know, I’ve not thought about that specific feature, but I have noticed that 3rd party controllers, even the ones that charge “pro” controller prices, rarely offer more features than a base first party controller, and sometimes even have missing features
It’s a rather strange phenomenon which caused me to not upgrade from my beat up dualshock 4 lol
I’ve had the complete opposite experience. So many third party controllers offer hall effect joysticks, macros, back pedals, options for linear or button triggers, etc at a much lower cost than first party controllers. The only thing they’re missing is the dual sense motors but that’s proprietary.
I recommend checking out the 8bitdo controllers mentioned in the post, and the FANTECH WGP14-V2 which you can find on AliExpress.
wait, linked in what article? I don’t think I linked an article.
Yeah, 8BitDo, GameSir, etc. have a bunch of good controllers for a very good price, they have feature-rich sub $60 and $70 models like the Cyclone 2, Ultimate 2, and Supernova, as well as a few really good sub $30 models like the Ultimate 2C and Nova 2 Lite. HE /TMR sticks, HE triggers, trigger locks, signal extender charging docks, a bunch of extra remappable buttons, fun colours (esp. the 8BitDo models) while being cheaper than the first party options. You can’t beat the PS haptics though, they are really nice.
I meant in the post haha
Yep that makes more sense. The Supernova is a really good controller as long as you like membrane buttons, while the Cyclone 2 is similar but with TMR sticks and mechanical buttons. 8BitDo’s lineup is confusing (the separation between “Wireless” and “Bluetooth” where the former can still do BT but not with the Switch) but the controllers themselves are great.
As far as I saw from 8bitdo none of them have a touchbar which is a deal breaker for me. The fantech one seems to not be missing any inputs at least, but also all it offers in addition is 2 paddles… and I guess hall effect, which I don’t particularly care about. So… it’s just 2 extra inputs, which I guess is fine ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I’d rather have something from a brand I’ve heard from not something from aliexpress tho x3
It also has a switch to toggle the triggers to either let you slowly pull on them or act as buttons, comes with some longer sticks as an option, and an instant disconnect button. I bought it a while back and the build quality is pretty decent, and looks pretty.
And personally hall effect is a must for me, I’ve had too many good controllers die to stick drift.
Yeah can’t say any of that has ever been an issue for me lol x3
The only thing I’d really want from a new controller is more inputs
Yeah I’ve been eyeing the controller op mentioned since they announced it. 3 trigger buttons + 2 back pedals that I can customize via steam input is the dream. Most 3rd party controllers and controller mods only let you map to existing buttons on the controller
Which one? They’ve mentioned a bunch at this point
8bitdo pro 3, the only playstation layout one they have lmao (well they have the previous model too but I don’t think it supports steam input and I can wait a couple of months for a shiny new model)
What third party controllers do offer is value (you can get some amazing budget controllers these days) as well as hall effect sticks and triggers (some newer models have TMR sticks, which apparently use lower power) meaning no stick drift and it will last longer.
Speaking of the DS4, I still have one, and I spray-painted it and I think it looks pretty cool! It’s a mix of spray paint (on the body, d-pad, and triggers), 3D printed face buttons, and cheap plastic I bought for that tiny little PS button. Makes it look more unique, but I forgot to tape the electronics and think I snapped one of the ribbon cables, so wireless is borked. I works fine wired though, so it’s all good.
When I was looking for replacement controllers the best I found was basically ones that have the same as what the ds4 already offers, or maybe an addition of paddles for more than the price of a dualsense pro lol
If I buy a controller now I’d like it to be something like those steam controller 2 leaks we had a while back honestly, a 2nd touchpad, touch capacitive sticks, and paddles (plus keeping gyro, cause for some reason many controllers don’t have that still lol)… that’d be enough additional buttons for me to consider upgrading
Which is to say hopefully valve time is quicker than the breaking down of my ds4… (if it was SC3 it’d never come so at least it’s only 2 /j)
You can see how shredded my left stick is at this point lol. It’s basically hard plastic. Though I had this controller for… 9 or 8 years?
Ooh yeah that looks pretty rough. I will say that there are definitely good third-party controllers nowadays for a pretty good price. There are some sub $30 options from both 8BitDo and GameSir (their Ultimate 2C and Nova 2 Lite respectively both seem really good), and a bunch of good controllers that are around the same price as a ds5, maybe a bit less from all sorts of companies with loads of different layouts and both membrane and mechanical buttons. There’s even a few with the ps-like symmetrical layout like the GameSir Tarantula Pro, their wired Tegenaria Lite, and the 8BitDo Pro series.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ as long as this one works, im not in a big rush to swap it out to something that’d give me the same or worse experience anyway :3… if im gonna spend any kind of money it’s be for additional features lol… or if this one breaks, in which case I can pick up another ds4 or a dualsense.
I don’t really care about saving 10 bucks on something I use daily, so I’d take something I know will last me another decade rather than the third party controllers which looking up usually leads to numerous threads of them breaking x3
I mean, fair enough. The ds4 controller is a good reliable controller and has worked for many years and probably will work for many years to come. Only downside is micro-usb though…
I had two with my PS4 Pro, and both of them got stick drift (one after a disappointingly short amount of time). Just my personal experience though…
shame that the big companies don’t use HE…
True that x3… I bought a 3 meter micro usb cable specifically for it recently lol, those have not lasted me as long as the controller. Having a usb C would be nice tho, since when it inevitably breaks again I’d be able to temporarily use any of the other cables I have on hand :3
I remember that some guy did a USB-C mod on a ds4. For me though, I just have a micro-USB cable always attached to the controller so it feels more like a wired controller with USB on the end.
Cost and not giving a fuck.
The Xbox layaout should be the standard. Nintendo changes their controllers drastically every generation, so they have no standard, and even on the GameCube, A was the “default” button. The Xbox controller hasn’t changed the four main buttons in 24 years, and PC followed suit. It’s already the standard, and anyone who would be bothered by a set standard only hurts unification, and will get over it eventually.
Super Famicom/SNES - 1990
Dreamcast - 1998
Xbox - 2001While Nintendo did briefly change their layout for the N64 and Gamecube, they went back to SNES for the DS (2004) and Wii Classic Controller (2006), and they’ve kept it ever since. So that has been their standard for 21 years now.
Well many prefer the Nintendo layout and are used to it, esp. for Nintendo games.
Interestingly, after a bit of searching, it looks like the Nintendo layout came first, but due to a patent or something, SEGA and later Xbox would swap the ABXY buttons. Not saying that either layout should be the “standard” though. Both should ideally coexist (and that includes the PS layout. You can’t really complain about the PS layout changing all the time, it’s basically the same since the original PS)
Also, what do you mean by A being the “default button”? Do you mean that A is for doing most of the interacting (e.g. dialogue, next, OK) or something like that? Because A does that in both Xbox layout (where you interact with the bottom button) and Nintendo layout (where you instead do that with the right button, at least on “standard” controllers. The GameCube controller kind of did its own thing)
Interestingly, it seems that some PS games interact with X and others interact with O. Apparently this is because in Japan, “O” means correct and “X” means wrong, while this significance of “O” doesn’t exist in the US and Europe, so “X” is accept because that’s where the thumb usually rests. Cool!
the history of the xbox layout is fascinating and frustrating. i got a little carried away, so wall of text incoming, sorry! TL;DR the XBox layout is the SEGA six button layout with two buttons chopped off
once upon a time, SEGA released the SG-1000, which had two buttons on it’s joystick. it didn’t have a D-Pad because it came out the very same day as the NES, but future revisions- the SG-1000 II and the Master System- would come with a joypad very similar to Nintendo’s. The numbers were not labelled on the SGs, but on the Master System and SK-3000 computer they were assigned 1 and 2, with 1 corresponding to B (and also labelled start) and 2 corresponding to A.
the Mega Drive/Genesis was backwards compatible with the MS in a few ways, one of which was controllers. the Mega Drive controller is mechanically a Master System controller with two extra buttons, one being Start and the other being… A. despite 1 and 2 mapping to B and A in Nintendoland, SEGA relabelled those buttons B and C on their new controller- plug your MD controller into a Master System and A does nothing! notably the MD also reverses the letter order from right to left to left to right, so it goes A B and C.
i’m not sure what was in the water that generation, because SEGA was not alone in their malarky. the SNES had A and B buttons right where you’d expect them but for NES ports and sequels often used X as B and B as A. despite the fact that perfectly good A and B buttons in the same orientation as the NES II and Gameboy were right there. sorry muscle memory! the Virtual Boy retained the regular A B layout, so one wonders if button position was a contested point for Miyamoto and Yokoi.
but i digress- the MD later tacked a second row of buttons, X Y and Z, to a second row above A B C and this carried over to the Saturn’s default and analog controller. the analog controller was based on the Micomsoft (not Microsoft) XE-1AP, a third party analog controller for the MD and JP microcomputers that retained the Nintendo A and B position and bizarrely has E1 and E2 buttons on the left hand side in a mirrored configuration. the Saturn analog controller however used the familiar MD/Saturn right hand six button array.
so here we are, and SEGA is collaborating with Microsoft (not Micomsoft) on their next generation console. everyone at SEGA had their own pet theory for why the Saturn didn’t take over the world and one that kept coming up is that the controller was too convoluted. the undisputed winner of last generation used the same four-button array used by the SNES, which overtook the MD at the tail end of the generation before. the obvious move would be to mimic that, so despite the C button being the first and main button on the SG-1000, the “real A button,” it and the Z button above them got the boot, creating the Dreamcast controller. when the Dreamcast failed, Microsoft decided they weren’t out of the fight just yet and early plans for their DirectX Box included backwards compatability with the Dreamcast, leading it to have the same button layout but with a size more akin to the Saturn analog and XE-1AP controllers. Nintendo would return to the SNES layout the next generation for the DS and Wii Classic Controller, and things have been steady for the in the two decades since
and that’s why we’re stuck arguing which layout is “right” until the end of time!
Oh, interesting. So Sega basically chopped off two buttons from the six button layout to create the Xbox layout, and after Sega stopped making consoles, Xbox used the same layout.
I appreciate the consistency of the PA controller, but I can not for the life of me remember which side is square and circle. Been fuckin me up since 2002
Probably because it adds functional & mechanical complexity (and therefore cost) for a feature most people don’t need.
Are you really looking down at the buttons often enough that it would actually make a difference?
I mean this feature is available on a sub $60 controller, and many controllers are over double that. You could make the argument that a screen in a controller adds loads of complexity and most people don’t need it, but it exists, because it’s useful to some people (but certainly not all people).
Coming from a PC game controller modder, I don’t understand the question. Is there no software mapping of the controls?
Yeah, you could software map them, but it feels kind of weird that there’s so few that let you physically swap the buttons
HANG ON, WAIT I found a fourth one.
The Nyxi Flexi is another controller with a swappable ABXY layout, and not just that, you can also swap between asymmetric and symmetric stick layout! Very cool.
I have (had?) a similar problem with my 8bitdo Pro 2 controller. I wanted to swap the buttons, took it apart and found out that there are grooves on the buttons so they wont fit the right way up when swapped. I think the grooves keep the buttons from rotating but they could have done it in a way that the buttons can still be swapped the right way up. Possibly its done so they can sell first party buttons with X Box layout? Over time I was able to simply swap the buttons in my mind so I know where the buttons are depending on the platform I’m playing without actually having to look down at the controller. But I’m with you on this one.
I think I’ve seen software swaps for the actual presses in most situations where I’d want to.
I think the only time I consider doing something is when I’m playing a Nintendo game on non Nintendo hardware, so my MiSTer or on retroarch and both support swapping Nintendo to western style. If I’m holding a Nintendo controller, muscle memory makes it not really a problem for me at least
If you mean the actual physical buttons, I’d just say blank buttons are better than labelled ones in general, most popular controllers have blank mods that are pretty easy to do if you have a screwdriver with the appropriate bit.
Why would you physically switch the buttons when you can just set up their layout in the menu in each console? It doesn’t matter if a button is red or blue, X or Y. Only the position matters.
There’s certainly a market for physically swappable buttons, otherwise why would the 8BitDo Pro 3 release with that feature (and advertise it), or the Supernova and the Tarantula Pro. It is definitely a desired feature for some, and I think it’s a bit odd that very few controllers have it, especially given some controllers have very niche (but still useful to some) features (see the numerous controllers with screens, Turtle Beach Stealth Pivot that lets you swap to d-pad centric layout, etc.).
I’m still at a total loss as to the purpose.
The button positions never move, only the letters or colours. You don’t look at your hands when you’re playing, so I don’t get why you’d need to swap buttons at all, outside of a game menu.
If you’re used to blue being left or X being bottom or whatever, do that in the menu. Your thumbs can’t see the buttons so it makes no difference. You have bought a controller to do what a menu does for free at the click of a button (a button that means whatever you assign it to mean).
It’s probably just more costly on the manufacturing side. More molds, more pieces to work with, modular structure etc etc. I also think it’s not as impactful, not sure about you but I’ve developed enough muscle memory to not even look at the front facing buttons, as long as I have Xbox button layouts in games, even with playstation controllers lol
That’s fair. Although it is a bit confusing when playing an Xbox game, since I grew ip with the Nintendo layout as a kid, I instinctively think that “A” is to the right and “B” is at the bottom.
I know this is a software solution but if this is for steam there’s an option under controller settings to use a Nintendo layout. I can appreciate the issue more though when you predominantly grew up playing a different platform from the one you’re playing now
I think it’s good that there’s at least a few good controllers that offer physically swappable buttons. The GameSir Supernova looks pretty good for the price, while the Tarantula Pro and 8BitDo Pro 3 look like decent symmetrical stick options.
Just use Steam Input
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interesting, there’s a fifth one! Replaceable button caps means you can probably change the layout of it, unless they have some stupid notch or something to stop you from doing that (hopefully not though)
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Ah, ok. So that’s why the button switches in the marketing look kind like those low profile keyboard switches. So there is really a fifth one :0
Yeah, the buttons themselves are shaped differently because they fit in different ends of the controller and require different depth.
Awesome controller, major caveat though, QC isn’t the best. I have sent back 2 of the 6 I’ve received. They’re good controllers when they’re made properly, but at least when they first started shipping, they had their issues.
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