There’s some misinformation floating around regarding Lemmy not having a karma system. While many have discovered otherwise, this is for those who may not have.
While it’s not exposed in the Lemmy default user interface, Lemmy does have a fully functional karma system and it is visible in third party clients such as WefWef and Memmy.
Do with that what you will.
Thanks, I hate it. Promotes gamesmanship and super douches like Gallowboob.
Yeah if people start going for Karma we’ll be plagued by “this” and stupid puns. Yesterday I saw a reddit post where the guy misspelled WiFi as Wife when explaining his problem, and then the top 10 comments were “omg dude you can’t just get a new wife” or “I wouldn’t come to Reddit for a problem with my wife”
The actual solutions to the problem were rubbish too
Yup, there’s a lot of hurrrr hurrrr hurrr stuff on reddit. Which isn’t inherently bad…but they often just keep pushing it ad nauseum. There’s no such concept as “OK, enough already” on there.
A bit of humour is fine, but when it drowns out the actual information it’s frustrating.
But it also encourages people to generate content. It’s a slippery slope.
What kind of content though? I’d rather have a few good posts a day than all that karma-whoring.
What is karma removed?
All kinds of content. There’s a difference between generating content and karma whoring.
At the same time it’s shows who you should block. I don’t always remember usernames but I had the top posters like that blocked. Made reddit so much better to use.
Yeah, I blocked gallowboob years ago, I was just wondering if he left during the reddit exodus or if he’s still there, posting 80% of the front page content. Not gonna go check though…
Was he the bird guy?
That was Unidan. Gallowboob was just a repost karma farmer.
Yeah, that is basically what the Karma System was for.
Have an upvote, so as to better game the system stranger.
I think I will do nothing with that information.
Fantastic!
You gained so much karma with that statement
Can’t wait to spend it on food and other essential goods!
Upvoted for visibility! 🤪
You have over 2000 points! Nice work bean!
Upbeans and downbeans…
Holy shit, we can get beans for this?
1 point = 2 beans, you will be a beautiful instrument of flatulence!
I already am.
Honestly should be removed
I don’t think there is a way to remove that. “Karma” is just the sum of upvotes on all of a users’ posts/comments and that info is always accessible.
We could make the decision to not show that value in the front-ends of course but you’ll likely have very different opinions on that and some front-ends will inevitably show karma.
But if it wasn’t available in the API then apps would have to do a fetch of all the users posts to calculate it, possibly discouraging it.
Upvotes are useful for determining what people like and dislike so you can sort posts and comments
Account karma is for narcissists to masturbate about how loved they are
Don’t threaten me with a good time!
Hey I’m already tracking my karma, no need to convince me !
Can confirm, am narcissist
Haha yeah. Now let’s see Paul Allen’s karma…
Upvotes are useful for determining what people like and dislike so you can sort posts and comments
> Things people like get more upvotes
> Upvotes give you karma
> Therefore posting things people like gives you more karmaNot sure if this was an argument for karma, but it sounds like an argument for avoiding contraversy and trying to fit in This is why everyone on Reddit appears to have the same opinion. I much prefer a diversity of opinions, and no penalty for speaking one’s mind (while treating each other with decency).
Karma makes sense, in theory, but in practice, it just punishes anyone who diverges from the herd.
it just punishes anyone who diverges from the herd
So you’re saying people get less karma for posts that diverge from the herd. That can only mean those posts get fewer upvotes, which means they rank lower
In other words, the sort-by-votes system makes uncontroversial posts more likely to be seen, while the karma system makes those same posts more likely to exist. My point, therefore, is that both systems have a similar overall effect on the website, and that the result of their conjunction is only that the effect is amplified
My biggest problem with karma is that it bakes in a reason for bots to repost everyone else’s posts. It also encourages people to sell their high karma accounts (god knows why someone would want to buy one)
And?
Honestly is it even worth anything? Even on reddit I didn’t really pay attention to how much karma a user had, maybe when I wanted to check if it was a bot or something.
When it comes to gauging advice, or doing something like buying or trading used goods it was helpful as a proxy for trustworthiness. Older accounts with good karma are a lot less sketchy than brand new accounts.
Yeah but that can be determined just by account age and number of posts, not by the public reception of those posts.
With the exception of if someone has negative karma, that’s a decent indication that they’re being unpleasant on purpose.
You’re right, didn’t think about that.
Hello there username sibling.
Ayooo 👋
now kith
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Not talking about votes on specific comments. Talking about profile aggregation. I’ve done vinyl trades, clothing swaps, hired people to 3d print things, etc. For those kinds of interactions you aren’t looking at the quality of one specific post, but want to validate that it’s not a temporary account for a scam and that the user generally cares about the reputation of their name on the platform.
I’d check sometimes whether someone had a history and how long their account had been around, but 18,000 vs 80,000 or 800,000 is super meaningless to me. Personally I’d delete my accounts every 1-6 months. It was a pain to start over but after that, so what. Reddit is practically anonymous. Posts and comments stand on their own to me… it’s not about the reputation of the author.
I used to create a new account on reddit every few years to “reset” my Internet presence.
Didn’t give a shit about karma, still don’t.
Same here. If any of my friends correctly identify my username as me, my annual account reset puts them back to square one…not that my accounts were anything but completely tame.
Also nice username!
Also nice username!
right back at you!
When you need a bit more, there are a couple of ways you can do a quick search/copy/paste as new jokes/memes pop up and you get votes for the Lolz. Easy to farm a couple of hundred or more each time.
However, by talking sense in r/Thailand (i.e. from a perspective of someone who actually LIVES here) and call out stupid bullshit posts from wannabes (people who know everything about a country after a week’s holiday in a whore hole) and you’ll get a hundred downvotes in ten seconds.
Karma is crap.
Reminds me of California and Bay Area related posts. 98% of the people have never even been there and just lie and exaggerate its problems.
Let’s not make Lemmy Reddit, or at least can we label this feature Anti-Karma?
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In Lemmy, karma is not important.
Alignment, however, is paramount.
Mine seems to be chaotic ADHD asshole. Wait, is this even a proper alignment?!
I know I’m in the minority here, but I think the karma system has value and I’d like to see us keep it. I did time as a moderator on a fairly busy subreddit, and requiring accounts to be >30 days old and have >100 or so karma saved us a lot of work. E.g., it made ban evasion a little harder to do, and reduced brigading.
It also helped to keep folks fairly civil and promoted considering perspective when posting, which I think is valuable.
With that said, I’d LOVE to allow communities to disable down votes… it’s a missing feature in reddit, and if you are trying to promote discussion of a divisive topic, or to actively suppress an echo chamber, I think down votes are counter productive.
requiring accounts to be >30 days old and have >100 or so karma saved us a lot of work. E.g., it made ban evasion a little harder to do, and reduced brigading.
Counter-point: Requirements such as these were the reason repost/copy-paste bots were getting so rampant on Reddit.
Kinda, but not really… if you are a user who has had your account for more than 5 minutes and you’re not a troll, odds are you never run into those rules.
The repost / copy paste bots were mostly to build a believable strawman that could be sold for astroturfing / “viral marketing”, etc.
Requiring accounts with X days or X karma lead to subs where people would literally post just to get upvotes and the creation of bot accounts.
Should probably be a per-server karma system. Or else anyone could create their own instance and auto-give themselves enough karma to be “trustworthy” and set their account date.
Definitely seems like that would end with defederating that server
Good luck detecting it
This is already possible on a per-server basis. Beehaw already does this.
It would be interesting to make it a per-community feature though.
I’d LOVE to allow communities to disable down votes…
Upvote-only system is bullshit and you also know it. How else would you motivate user to post a quality content? Karma should also exist for this exact reason.
I don’t want yet-another-facebook-or-youtube here. 🤷
People that post quality content don’t tend to care about internet points. People that care about internet points won’t bother to collect them via posting quality content.
Downvote systems can also discourage open discussion, as too many people can’t help themselves from downvoting dissenting views. Communities end up one sided hiveminds.
Maybe there is a middle ground, perhaps downvotes could be rationed instead of outright disabled.
I think downvote rationing could work, possibly. It is only an issue for subs that are focused on discussion of divisive topics… downvotes work fine for most communities
Being left on one would be the equivalent of being downvoted. What’s the difference? Downvotws often just serves as a fuck you, and makes people feel like they’re being attacked.
Not every sub is for “quality content”, some subs are intended for debate / dialogue between people that disagree with each other, and use the downvote button to mean “disagree” … which means if you are coming for a quality dialogue, you tend to only see a quality monologue unless the user base is split 50/50 on the topic, which is rare.
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Yer, great way to kill momentum of a new community that is built around discussion.
You had my approval until: I’d LOVE to allow communities to disable down votes…
No… Just No…
yeah, like if we pick a certain flair, down votes will be disabled to prevent echo chamber for a certain conversation
So no free and open discussion then? Only approved group think will be allowed?
I understand the benifits of what you are asking, but those are the very things that lead Reddit to what it is now.
How does requiring a minimum account age cause group think?
It was more of a response to the minimum account karma.
Account age is reasonable enough, after the service has grown a bit more.
However, if people start getting banned for the wrong reasons and have to create new accounts to be able to have discussion. It does create a barrier for that discussion to take place.
if people start getting banned for the wrong reasons
What would be good or bad reasons?
It is seriously difficult to have negative account karma on reddit unless you are an outright troll.
Requiring basic levels of karma or age is not “group think.”
requiring basic levels of karma most certainly is. You have to say the right things first to get the group approval before you can contribute.
requiring basic levels of karma most certainly is. You have to say the right things first to get the group approval before you can contribute.
Again, I disagree. You can say the “right things,” certainly, or you can say “neutral things.” Really anything short of overt hostility would be acceptable.
I think that is too idealistic. It could very easily go into a downward spiral that a community could never get out of. It happens already on several subreddits already. You may not have experienced it, but I can say it for certain happens. There have even been scifi series written about it that have taken the concept to the extreme.
I think that is too idealistic. It could very easily go into a downward spiral that a community could never get out of. It happens already on several subreddits already. You may not have experienced it, but I can say it for certain happens. There have even been scifi series written about it that have taken the concept to the extreme.
I’m familiar with some of the subreddits, but I believe you’re taking the spiral too steeply and too quickly.
The “don’t be a dick” philosophy will get you more than enough karma to comment on whatever subreddit you want to participate in, outside of some super niche ones.
If you have controversial opinions just post them on controversial subs as well. A large part of “the right things” depends on the “right community”
But not ‘being a dick’ is far too subjective in a global village… The world does not beat to one drum.
I have to stand on eggshells with my language around USamericans as an example.
Sorry, what? That’s the opposite of my point. I think most subs benefit from outright trolling and off topic nonsense being prohibited, but my issue is that downvotes promote group think, and on a discussion sub, you should be able to limit or remove them.
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Voat had a system where you only had ten downvotes a day. Kept people in check
Voat
Kept people in check
I don’t think so dude.
Welcome to Lemmy where everything is made up and the Karma doesn’t matter.
Well said.
Thus the tradition was carried over from the dark place. Go back? Namaste.
That’s right, the karma is just like the salad bar at an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet
Whose line was it… can’t remember! Anyway…
Pretty sure this is just the apps adding up all the upvotes/downvotes you receive and not an actual Lemmy feature.
It’s right in the API: https://join-lemmy.org/api/interfaces/PersonAggregates.html
Returns: comment_count, comment_score, id, person_id, post_count, post_score
Oh no. Anyway, karma wasn’t the worst thing about reddit so it should be fine, I hope…
My “karma” got reset a few days ago. Lol.
Honestly makes no diff. But it’s a little nice to see. Didn’t really change my behavior. I’m just happy to be here and I am engaging more than I ever did on Reddit.
I think I am the only one that finds karma useful. Albeit my experience is based on Reddit, but I found it handy to check out who are the serial reposters that have huge submission karma and very low comment karma. My RES filter was getting… large.
Lemmy? I dunno. I’m still pretty new here.
Mmm I think you find the ability to determine if a user is a bot on your own to be helpful, but karma itself is useless.
It’s vulnerable to manipulation by coordinated groups/bots.
Karma is an artificial means to quantify value of a post. I think we need a better way than a voting system (I’m gonna say it: Machine Learning)
It’s not only for bot accounts, but super-users like Gallowboob on reddit, who was basically a serial reposter/karma farmer. My feed got significantly better once I blocked him.
Yep precisely. I don’t want to see content based off of votes, voting systems exclude those tiny guys that weren’t popular at the time who might have somethin neat.
Buuuut now we get into echo chamber territory and content/feed addiction if it’s too good.
Idk man tough topic
IMO voting definitely had its uses, having a guage of whether people do/dont like stuff can be nice. and for seeing content, there are multiple different feed types, i assume only the top sorting is the only one to exclusively use votes, idk how hot/active work but it seems like active cares more about comments and overall interaction and hot is more about votes?
I think you might’ve misunderstood where I was going with my point. I think value should be derived person by person, not by quantities.
Voting is a means to measure “mass” opinion. That doesn’t mean it’s the majority opinion (think bots and people who would want to sway a vote just to cause chaos and not to reflect what they want). It’s not a reliable way to get real peoples opinions because it’s naturally vulnerable to mass disruption
I know my comic praising lemmy for no karma added to the confusion on this but I do appreciate that lemmy.world does not feature the server karma on profiles for reasons already said in the comments. Thanks for clarifying.
