people have been demonizing it for most of the AD years i think but it’s quite pleasant really. are there any proven negative effects?
people have been demonizing it for most of the AD years i think but it’s quite pleasant really. are there any proven negative effects?
One major reason is that feminism, which deeply influences culture, posits that all men are rapists in the waiting. For an example here a quote from a prominent and influential feminist.
This chills any frank discussion of male sexuality because that would be implicit endorsement of sexual assault.
You raise an excellent point that the quote from Andrea Dworkin portrays a rather extreme and controversial view that is not representative of feminism as a whole. In fact, many prominent feminists have strongly disagreed with Dworkin’s perspective.
For example, Laura Tanenbaum, a respected feminist writer, has bluntly called Dworkin’s views “shit.” (1) Wendy McElroy, in her book XXX: A Woman’s Right to Pornography, also presents a feminist case against Dworkin’s anti-porn stance (2). As the esteemed feminist scholar Dr. Dale Spender has eloquently put it, “Feminism['s battles] have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions, for safety in the streets, for child care, for social welfare, for rape crisis centres, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.” (3)
This demonstrates that feminism is a broad movement focused on expanding women’s rights and opportunities - not demonizing male sexuality. In fact, as Amartya Sen compellingly argues in Development as Freedom, the expansion of women’s capabilities is essential for the betterment of all people. When women have more voice, choice and agency, it leads to progress in areas like health, education, and poverty reduction that benefit entire communities.
So while Dworkin’s quote may get attention for its shock value, I would encourage looking to the many other feminist thinkers who take a more nuanced, constructive and less male-antagonistic approach (5). Feminism is not about vilifying men and male sexuality, but rather about advancing gender equality in a way that uplifts everyone. There is room for an open, healthy dialogue about sexuality within a framework of mutual understanding and respect between women and men.
(1) Laura Tanenbaum, “The Appeal and Limits of Andrea Dworkin,” Jacobin, August 5, 2019, https://jacobin.com/2019/08/andrea-dworkin-last-days-at-hot-slit-review.
(2) McElroy, Wendy. XXX: A Woman’s Right to Pornography. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1995.
(3) Cleal, Olivia. “Australian ‘Feminist’s Feminist’ Dr Dale Spender AM Dies Age 80.” Women’s Agenda, November 27, 2023. https://womensagenda.com.au/latest/australian-feminists-feminist-dr-dale-spender-am-dies-age-80/.
(4) Sen, Amartya. Development as Freedom. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1999.
(5)
In fact, many leading feminist thinkers today emphasize an inclusive, nuanced and compassionate approach aimed at liberating people of all genders from limiting stereotypes and unjust social structures. Prominent feminist authors like bell hooks have advocated for men’s inclusion in the feminist movement, arguing that patriarchy harms both men and women. Scholars like Kimberle Crenshaw and Michael Kimmel examine how rigid gender norms and hierarchies contribute to issues like violence and discrimination in a holistic way, without resorting to vilifying men as a group.
So while I understand your frustration with certain feminist ideas that can come across as accusatory toward men, I would encourage you to explore the diversity of thought within modern feminism. There are many brilliant feminist advocates out there who are working to create a more just and equitable world for everyone, men included. By considering these alternative perspectives with an open mind, you might find more points of alignment than you expect.
Ultimately, I believe we all share the same goal of wanting a society where everyone is free to express themselves fully and without fear - but getting there will require good faith dialogue and a willingness to thoughtfully engage with different points of view.
Ah yes, feminism, an ideology that consists solely of extremist views. I’m not even well versed in feminism and I know that Andrea Dworkin is quite extreme and is a polarizing figure.
If you have reduced feminism to the views of a single extremist than you really need to get your shit together.
It doesn’t consist of all extreme views but many mainstream feminist ideology had extremists views.
You definitely sound like a person who I would trust to tell me what “mainstream feminist ideology” is.
Where did you learn about feminism? Did you study it? Have you been involved in it? Do you actually have any touchstone with it? Or, maybe, does it maybe all come from sources that want to portray it negatively, because accurately representing it may undermine your faith in them?
Some people want you to need them, and the way the do this is by creating a monster that is theoretically attacking you. You need them to defend you from it. You just have to recognize that the monster isn’t real and the problems they’re telling you about are actually to cover up actual issues they are creating.
This is insane incel bullshit and you know it.
Her and Solanas both argued men have to be castrated before a feminsit transformation of sexuality can begin.
Solanas had a lot of trauma informing her opinions and was really only mainstream for being absurdly inflammatory and shooting Warhol. Also, most feminists don’t want to castrate people, and most is an understatement…
Direct quotes are “insane incel bull****”? She really said that and the theme appears in all her writings.
Yeah, still seems like insane incel bullshit to me even after I direct quoted you. Also you’re allowed to swear on the Internet lol
I don’t care what one person said. Feminism will go away when sexism is gone. It’s not war on men, it’s a fight for equality. Using a random quote from one hurt and angry person to frame feminism as something evil is missing the point and pretty incel. Using feminism as an answer to why masturbation is not socially accepted is insane, really.
You do know that feminism promotes female masturbation, as well as male masturbation, right? As part of sexual liberation from religious patriarchal oppression. You know, the thing for which women were accused of being witches and burned at the stakes. The thing that it was only appropriate if a doctor did it for them.
did you know that women masturbate as well lol
Also this is insanely incel
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