It’s so wild to hear that people don’t know this.
I:
- Fainted while watching TV on the couch.
- Had a blood pressure of 80/40.
- Have been to the ER twice.
- Had long-running (over two years) chest pain, heart pounding, weight loss, vision differences, dizziness, shortness of breath.
- Was so sick with those issues I was bed bound for months.
- After I started feeling a little better, overdid it and put myself back to bed for a week. Twice. With easy shit like rearranging the canned goods cabinet.
- Lost a tooth. (White lie, actually. I’m scheduled to have it extracted early February.)
- Still have lingering heart pounding and dizziness on a not-infrequent basis.
All from covid.
I’m fortunate to be mostly recovered. It sucks that there are so many who haven’t recovered to speak of.
That’s fucked, buddy. One can only wonder at the uncalculated costs of everyone who had it that bad.
If we knew the costs, we could charge the republican senators a share directly.
If only
starting to wonder if my heart irregularities are from COVID. I get a ridiculously strong pulse after just a 1 mile walk with my dog.
I don’t mean to be rude but a blood pressure of 80/40 is perfectly fine? Typo?
Well, I can assure you I wasn’t fine when that 80/40 was measured. 120/80 is considered normal. (And that’s right about usual for me. Googling just now, I saw something about them apparently updating the guidelines to 120/70, but that’s not that different.) Elite athletes can have resting blood pressures more like 100/something, I think. But I’m no athlete. And having low blood pressure will absolutely render one light-headed, unconscious, or dead. Depending just how low it gets and how long it stays that way. It’s not a “lower is better” thing.
I mentioned passing out while watching TV. As soon as I regained consciousness and was still very light-headed, an ambulance was called for me. There were two EMTs. One distracted me while the other took my blood pressure. And took it again. And took it again. And finally asked the other EMT to check, so he took it and was like “no, I think you’re getting the right numbers, TootSweet’s BP is just low.”
When they handed me off to the ER staff at the hospital, he told them he was pretty sure that BP reading wasn’t just a bad measurement because I had a lot of “palor” (paleness) at the time.
So, it’s probably a reasonable assumption that my BP was a fair amount lower than 80/40 a few minutes before and that 80/40 was taken on the way back up. And the EMTs acted as if 80/40 was not normal or healthy.
Honestly, I largely only mentioned the 80/40 because it was the only test I was given where I got an abnormal result. An ECG, an EEG, EKGs, chest x-rays, Holter monitors, a stress test, a full brain MRI, a calcium score CT scan, multiple rounds of bloodwork (I’m probably forgetting some) – all those came back “normal” while I was having some of my worst symptoms.
I finally got a doctor who reviewed the results of all those above tests and told me “your nervous system is kindof oversensitive.” I had to ask him if he’d just given me a diagnosis of “dysautonomia” and he admittied that “that’s not an incorrect term to use for it.”
So I guess I’ve got a half-hearted diagnosis of sorts. Ha! I doubt it’s in my chart, though. (I hope you’re somewhere more civilized than the U.S… Medical costs is not at all the only problem with medical care in the U.S…) Much better than my previous doctor who told me it was anxiety. (It wasn’t/isn’t anxiety.) My previous doctor also swore he’d seen proof that COVID came from a Chinese laboratory, so there’s that.
I’m rambling, but in short, not a typo and 80/40 is not somewhere you want to be, I assure you.
I’ve been there. It’s no bueno. I was gasping for breath because my blood wasn’t making it around my body.
Different cause though.
I had a very similar experience in 2020
I think you replied to the wrong person. You’re right 80/40 is low.
Looks to me like I replied to the right post (yours, I mean) as far as I can tell.
(My username is only highlighted pink in that screenshot because I searched my own username.)
Oh odd, I could swear you replied to someone who replied to me. No biggy.
Anything under 90/60 is considered low. It isn’t always an issue, but it’s not surprising they were fainting, having dizzy spells, etc. with BP that low.
What units is that perfectly fine in?
120/80 is perfectly fine, 60/40 is twice less and can’t be perfectly fine, 80/40 is much closer to the latter.
Edit: can’t find anything regarding what exactly low pressure shouldn’t be. Everywhere it says “lower than 120/80” is good. Like okay 0/0 also seems healthy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Mean Arterial Pressure is the actual number we use as a guideline. MAP is calculated as 1/3 of the top BP number + 2/3 of the bottom number:
https://www.mdcalc.com/calc/74/mean-arterial-pressure-map
Goal is bare minimum 60, and preferably >65. A BP of 80/40 gives you a MAP of 53, which = no bueno. Your kidneys and brain will not be happy.
Source: am critical care nurse
I once had 80/40 or 60/40, can’t remember exact number, for a very short time. It wasn’t too pleasant and judging by the doctor reaction it wasn’t supposed to be that low. It was just after a tooth removal, just a bit of overreaction 😅
Thank you for sharing the info, I should memorise the threshold to use it when uncertain if the pressure is too low
People look at me strangely, but I don’t go in anywhere without a mask, still. I don’t eat in restaurants, I don’t go to indoor family gatherings without a mask.
It’s a big sacrifice but I’m not willing to live with long COVID and brain fog.
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My heart goes out to you friend. I’m with you; masking is still better than the alternative.
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Hang in there
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As someone with long covid, it is fucking hell. The extreme fatigue, muscle soreness, lengthened healing times of wounds or new sicknesses or physical exertion have made life hardly bearable. I just straight up don’t have the energy or mental capacity to do anything I used to love and enjoy.
It’s endlessly depressing, even though I know I am keeping myself out of clinical depression after learning how to deal with depressive issues more proactively now.
I wish I just wore an n95 whenever I was around people now, but I know I never would have done so unless I knew how truly awful long covid is.
I’m there with you. If you haven’t already, look into the treatments for mast cell activation disorder, it has a lot of overlap. In fact, I’m convinced they’re largely the same thing. I’m popping pills like candy nowadays but I’m finally on the upswing.
I hugely appreciate the information! I’ll look into that for sure.
It’s not even that big of a sacrifice honestly. Wearing a mask is pretty trivial. Restaurants have outdoor tables. The indoor-only ones that don’t but are still worth going to tend to seat less than 15 people so I occasionally deem it worth the risk.
Long Covid seems way, way worse than a mask. When we have a cure for that I’ll drop it, but until then it’s not even that inconvenient.
Plus, you don’t even have to get the worst symptoms for it to affect you. A couple people I know lost their taste and smell in 2020/2021 and have yet to regain it. That, I think, ruins restaurants more than sitting outside.
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I was told over and over again that wearing a mask is the most tiny, unnoticeable thing in the world. Literally the easiest thing you can do
Well, did you?
No way
Then shut the fuck up
The sacrifice would be tiny if the general population made that same tiny sacrifice. Instead they don’t bother to ever wear a mask, exponentially increasing the chances they’ll spread it to someone else.
I have a family member that relies on me for help as well as a friend that I see weekly. Both are very high risk for COVID complications - family has almost no immune system and friend has a rare clotting disorder. I don’t think I would be able to forgive myself if they caught COVID from me.
I also don’t want to end up like two other friends of mine with long COVID. They were healthy and extremely active, now they are riddled with problems and had to abandon the activities they used to enjoy (and that I’d really prefer to continue to enjoy myself).
So, yes, avoiding everyone who takes no precautions has become quite a sacrifice. If I was confident that I’d be surrounded by people who were vaccinated and (regularly) wearing N95s I’d feel safer at restaurants, shops, gyms, public transit, parties, maybe even a concert. Instead I do take out or occasionally outdoor dining, minimize my time in most places, and avoid gatherings of any significant size.
Being extremely careful because nobody else is willing to be even a little careful really shrinks your world and it fucking sucks. Alternatively, I could join my dumbass aunt and make fun of people masking at the grocery store immediately after complaining about suddenly, mysteriously being diabetic following her third COVID infection.
We’re pretty shut in because of health concerns and I feel for you :(. Sucks that everybody else has moved on and just thinks you’re being ridiculous. I guess at this point I don’t know when to stop worrying. Sometimes I think “maybe it really is fine now” but then you hear about somebody getting ruined by long COVID and it just seems really scary. I’m also just kind of upset about how everything went down… If nothing else I kind of just mask up still out of spite.
The sacrifice isn’t really wearing a mask. It’s avoiding the get togethers and in person events and having people forget about you and move on with their lives while you’re still cautious. You could argue that these are small things too, but it’s a pretty big change for most people, and while they claimed this was a “big sacrifice” that’s just a figure of speech… They didn’t claim it was something they couldn’t do or weren’t willing to do, just that it sucks… Which it does.
There is a difference between you doing it when everyone is and you doing it when almost no one is.
If you haven’t done so, check out PhysicsGirl on YouTube. Good science channel, then she got covid right after her wedding.
EDIT: Link to video.
Long Covid is so scary, but one thing that worries me is, if you get Covid and you don’t get Long Covid, is that it, you’re never going to get it ever, OR is it just a matter of time before most of us or we’re all eventually suffering from Long Covid over the course of multiple waves? Why is it affecting some people differently than others? I’ve had Covid two or three times now and each time I was only out of it a week or two, otherwise no apparent long-term damage that I’m aware of, but will that always be the case?
The risk of long covid is cumulative so every infection increases your chance. But also just having covid increases your risk of heart attacks and strokes for up to a year https://nyulangone.org/news/study-helps-explain-how-covid-19-heightens-risk-heart-attack-stroke
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Covid messes up your immune system so even if you don’t get long covid, you get other opportunistic infections, plus nice stuff like heart attacks. Of course if you die of such a heart attack, it’s not counted as a covid death. So the damage of covid is way underestimated.
What scares me are those cases where people have psychotic breaks. I read one where a construction worker in a hospital unscrewed some metal bar and started a small rampage. What if that happened to me? I start attacking my family.
What’s up with this site’s domain? Ok Doomer? Who is that?
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Sure, but my question is more like “who are you that I should trust your perspective?” Particularly when you seem to admit having a bias towards a “doomer” perspective. Like, I wouldn’t want to take an article seriously when the title is “We need more police, and that’s okay” from theauthoritarian.com
It eventually turns into a full on conspiracy article about how the government is faking all the covid statistics. Garbage article and website.
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It’s not a loaded question to ask “who are you and why should I trust you?”
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Ok, Doomer
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‘Editorial style’ is not saying the government is faking COVID statistics. Laughable you can say ‘isnt science the authority here’ while dismissing blatant fear mongering and misinformation as ‘editorial style’, lmfao and you expect people to take you seriously
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Yeah I’m laughing alright
I caught it for the first time a few months ago, relatively fit/healthy guy and it gave me the whammy for a full week (I could barely move, didn’t want to eat at all, sweats, dizziness) I’ve never felt that bad in my life. Thankfully, no long covid here, aside from randomly coughing to clear up something left in my lungs once a day, but it put a 2-3 week sized hole in my life, it can show up with a vengeance, no joke.
I got COVID after taking all precautions because my father didn’t wear a mask and took it home. I was sick for a month. I only left my bed to use the bathroom or eat. I literally slept the rest of the time. I probably should have gone to the hospital because I could hardly stay awake even just to eat. I remember waking up one day, and just knowing that I was recovering.
Recovery was hell. I couldn’t taste, or smell anything. I had awful flu like symptoms. I was lethargic and I could hardly walk. It took two weeks to feel functional, and for three months my sense of taste was completely fucked.
The masks don’t really do much to prevent getting covid. Their main purpose was to stop people from spreading their covid.
My fiance was on a movie set that got hit bad and had to shutdown twice, she was one of the only people not to catch it, and was in very close contact with infected. She always wears a kn95 mask. I know they aren’t as great but they have kept us both from getting it so far and these newer ones are comfy enough to wear. I’m already heavily disabled and could easily be screwed so we’ve been careful and are grateful to not have to deal with long COVID. I have friends who lost wives and were in thier 30s. Every time I’m about to loosen up I see something like this article and m just gonna keep a stock of em. The limited effectiveness has been enough for us so far
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I can’t tell if you’re joking or really that stupid.
My data speaks for itself
Lol. This is a classic case of knowing enough to think you’re right but not knowing enough to know you’re wrong.
I don’t think that’s true. Face masks, especially the kind designed to filter air, reduce how many particles from the air get into your lungs and airways.
IIRC the studies used to make that argument were using data from respiratory diseases other than covid, which are different in that you only get infected when stuff gets deep in your lungs, which is going to be the very smallest particles that will not end up getting filtered before then by landing on the inside of your throat etc. That might mean that masks are less effective, since they don’t filter the very smallest water droplets quite as well. But it doesn’t apply to covid because with that disease infection isn’t as localized.
There isn’t a practical case for why masks would not make a difference. You block particles containing the virus, you reduce chance of infection.
Edit: Also, here’s a snippet from an article a few clicks away from the OP article:
Epidemiological investigations have helped quantify the benefit of mask wearing to prevent the spread of SARS-CoV-2 (Table; Supplement). At a hair salon in which all staff and clients were required to wear a mask under local ordinance and company policy, 2 symptomatic, infected stylists attended to 139 clients and no infections were observed in the 67 clients who were reached for interviewing and testing. During a COVID-19 outbreak on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, persons who wore masks experienced a 70% lower risk of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection.4 Similar reductions have been reported in case contact investigations when contacts were masked5 and in household clusters in which household members were masked.6
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You said they “don’t do much”, which isn’t true. The virus might be smaller, but most of the infectious particles are larger than the size of a single virus. Quantity you’re breathing in makes a difference too.
N95 masks have an electrstatic layer that removes particles (such as viruses) that are much smaller than the mask pores. The size of the pores is almost immaterial at that scale.
Also, Covid is an aerosol virus, not droplets. The difference is that droplets are large enough to fall to the ground due to gravity, while aerosols linger in the air like smoke. The idea that it was droplets led to the idea of 6 foot social distancing, which would give the particles time to fall to the ground. But that doesn’t work. You really need filtration, such as masks and/or HEPA filters. UVC light is also showing some promise for killing the virus in the air, but N95’s are tried and true.
This is misinformation. Masks are rated based on 0.3 micron particles because that’s the size that’s hardest to filter. Smaller particles are actually more likely to be filtered due to how they move.
The “N95” classification means respirator filters remove at least 95% of “very small” particles (around 0.3 microns in diameter) from the air, OSHA explains, adding that some people have claimed incorrectly that the virus is about 0.1 microns in size. Further, when the virus becomes airborne via an infected person talking, coughing or sneezing, those particles contain more than the virus – they also include water or mucus. Those larger particles are too big to pass through an N95 respirator filter, while electrostatic charge attracts the particles to the fibers in the filter.
“In addition, the smallest particles constantly move around (called Brownian motion), and are very likely to hit a filter fiber and stick to it,” the agency states.
Doing much to prevent other people getting covid is, in fact, “do[ing] much to prevent getting covid.” The distinction you’re trying to make isn’t meaningful except in the delusions of selfish assholes.
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This is valid downvoters. Masks are for the community, not the wearer. You may get some protection, but that’s not the general goal.
The person said “masks don’t really do much to prevent getting covid”, which is simply false. We’d all be safer if both sides wore masks, but a N95 is an effective method of greatly reducing your individual risk.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdc-updates-mask-guidelines-know-n95-kn95-masks-rcna12302
You’re not wrong, but n95 is not the mask in the public consciousness. Generally the primary transmission vector is touching your face, eyes, mouth which obviously masks help with, but thinking you’re bulletproof because of a random ebay mask actively hurts.
This sounds like old information from early in the pandemic. COVID is airborne. The primary method of transmission is breathing it in. And all masks help, N95 just help the most.
I do agree that thinking you’re bulletproof with a cloth mask is not a good idea, but this is all straying from the original falsehood. Masks work, both for the wearer and those around them. The better the mask, the better the protection. Though personally I find that N95s breath a lot easier than cloth masks and since they can be reused aren’t much more expensive, so I’d encourage anyone with a cloth mask to just switch to them.
No it’s not. He falsely claimed that “masks don’t really do much to prevent getting covid.” He didn’t say who it would prevent getting it which means he implied it wouldn’t help “anybody,” but in reality the answer to that question is that it would help “the community.”
(And that’s even if we were to accept his premise that masks don’t help the wearer, which is also false BTW.)
Well first off yes, it does help prevent you from getting covid. But also if it prevents people from spreading covid then by extension it also prevents other people from getting covid.
My wife is fully vaxxed and got it two months ago. Young and healthy. She was in bed for a solid 9 days. Meanwhile I am hardly the picture of health and I never got it. This disease is so freaken nuts.
Hopefully you didn’t lose your sense of smell / taste as this is a sign of brain damage. Who knows what kind of illness people will start to develop 3-4 years down the line. It won’t be pretty.
Hopefully you didn’t lose your sense of smell / taste as this is a sign of brain damage.
You got a source for that one?
Not the person you were replying to.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2023/apr/long-covid-smell-loss-linked-changes-brain
Ah, so specifically people who lost and never regained their smell. Interesting.
Also, it’s good to know, as I personally lost my smell both times I’ve had covid, but thankfully recovered heh…
Thanks!
I have lasting issues from a mild 2020 infection. My heart scares me the most these days.
Long COVID is a bitch. I wake up every night coughing my lungs out for about 15 minutes. And I’m one of the lucky ones when it comes to Long COVID.
Yup. Can’t get a solid nights sleep since the last time I got covid months ago. I get this too. It’s awful.
My lungs are completely fucked since I had covod in 2021. I can’t go up three steps without being seriously short of breath. I struggle to breathe every day. It’s exhausting.
I know someone who has an advanced degree and had a pretty impressive career. I don’t think he will ever be able to work a normal job again. He got it in the early days and the hospital told him not to come. Yes, brain damage.
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I wasn’t blaming anyone
I caught it earlier this year at the peak effectiveness of my booster, so it was extremely mild. I still had a nasty cough for nearly 2 months after I recovered, and my memory is noticably worse.
To people who say it’s oVeRbLoWn CoNsPiRaCy
Every viral disease may leave long term consequences, including the common flu. So can COVID. But we as a society got quite good at handling common flu. Also most people don’t contract it that often and if they do it’s a cause for medical attention. Meanwhile people are getting infected with COVID 3-4 times within 4 years and no one bats an eye besides “yeah, you’re not lucky”. So we were forced into pretending that going through a potentially heavily debilitating disease every 1-2 years is a perfectly normal thing and those who eventually “find out” are either just unfortunate or straight up lying.
Sadly facts don’t care about our feelings and social setups. The endgame (that is max percentage of affected people) is at the level of 50% of the entire population with long covid at all times because the damage from subsequent infections accumulates. I just don’t remember if the timescale for this was 10 or 20 years of unmitigated spread of the virus (that is: what we have now)
Meanwhile the new mutations are not really less severe. Only vaccinations make it so we’re not seeing death rates of 2020 until today. And sooner or later one or another mutated form will evade all immunity, wheteher it emerges tomorrow or in 5 years.
Fun times ahead and, oh, remind me how well are health care systems faring right now when “the pandemic has ended”? Yeah, thought so. And these people are first in line to be affected so it won’t be getting better. If anythong COVID is the one topic where doomerism is perfectly justified as we don’t even try to pretend we’re doing something like we are with climate.
Absolutely hilarious move to say: “The end game is X but I forget when”. Trust me guys it’ll happen. I am very smart.
Got COVID from my cousin during Christmas, still feeling terrible.
He went to the doctor and they didn’t even test him. they just assumed it was the flu and gave him Tamiflu.
Tested myself after I got it and came up positive for COVID. It seems that our medical professionals are complicit in the cover-up of diagnoses. Once it left the news people just assumed it was gone.
I don’t think that at all.
People are now just accepting that COVID is part of our lives. It’s only a risk if you’re extremely elderly, obese or otherwise particularly infirm, in which case, you’re also vulnerable to bad flu’s, not just COVID.
COVID is not something that can be beaten. No amount of lockdowns or vaccines will eliminate it. You’d only be postponing the inevitable. Permanent lockdown would obviously be an unsustainable idea, even if it was a popular one and vaccinating COVID is like vaccinating flu, it’s impossible to keep up!
What is even the point of testing for COVID anymore? If you have bad symptoms, stay at home what ever sort of flu, cough or cold it might be!
Realistically if everyone (literally everyone) were given n95’s used them, and washed their hands any time they touch something someone else touched without touching their faces: we actually could beat things like COVID and the flu.
What makes it unrealistic is that people aren’t that far removed from monkeys, and behave like it.
Not even N95s. If people just did the bare minimum and wore a surgical mask and washed their hands frequently the instant they felt like they might be sick, we would work wonders to reduce spread, morbidity, and lost wages/productivity. We just need the same simple politeness around respiratory illnesses that already exists in some Asian nations.
Do those Asia nations not have COVID or flu’s?
I think that believing we could eliminate flu like viruses is extremely optimistic, but it’s not something I can really argue against because it’s just an opinion.
I mean, presumably you wear an N95 at all times and keep your hands meticulously clean, but when you get ill, it’s just some other idiots fault.
But if they were eliminated, flu’s are probably the most common things for keeping our immune system in practice. If we all had immune systems that are completely out of practice with dealing with viruses. What could go wrong?!
We literally did beat one of the flu variants due to COVID prevention measures.
You said did. The article said may have.
There are 18 HA sub types and 11 NA subtypes. The article implies that it was the lockdowns that specifically harmed the spread of the flu.
How long do you want us to be locked down for in the attempt to eliminate the other 28 and the COVID variants too? Please consider that it would have to be a world wide lockdown.
I understand that many people people are happy to swap their freedom for an idea of safety, but many others value their freedom too highly.
Please understand that I’m not saying that the measures against COVID weren’t effective. I’m saying that total eradication of COVID is an unatainable target.
Countries like Japan and Korea wear face masks as a normal part of their cultures and dirty behaviour is extremely frowned upon there. They still have flu and COVID.
Yes, the last line of my comment very clearly addressed why it’s unrealistic.
Ok and my implication was that even with compulsory N95s and diligent hand washing that it would still be optimistic.
Are you wearing an N95 at all times you’re in the vicinity of others and disinfecting your hands any time you’ve touched something that’s been near yours or someone else’s face? Because if not you’re nothing but a virtue signalling hypocrit.
I feel like you haven’t thought this through. My cousin is young so he has very low risk of having serious side effects from his COVID. The thing is we had elderly grandparents at Christmas as well, one of which with stage 4 cancer.
There is a point to testing for COVID. If we don’t test for it we have no idea how much it is spreading.
I used to get the flu once every 10 years, roughly. I’ve been getting COVID nearly every single winter.
There are relatively young people who are completely bedridden from long COVID. I’ve never heard of someone having years of their lives taken from them because of the flu.
Ever since I first got COVID I have had a irregular heartbeats and periods of extremely low energy
I find it funny you’re creating a false dichotomy of either locking people in their homes for eternity or being free. We all had a chance to stop this in its tracks, nearly everyone around me was completely unable to sacrifice one summer of vacations. I know people who literally went on vacation knowing they had COVID, breaking state laws in the process.
If you didn’t lose anybody to COVID that’s great for you, but a lot of us did.
A lot of people believed our president at the time who said that it was nothing more than the flu, similar to what you are saying today.
I believe there should be legal repercussions for those who have spread that misinformation, leading to needless death
Please don’t open your comments with statements like “I feel like you haven’t thought this through”. We can have an adult debate without needing to imply that the other person is an idiot.
I do understand your point however, presumably your elderly and frail grandparents are also vulnerable to flu’s, colds and all the sorts of different risks to their immune systems. So why stop at COVID? Presumably, if you were coughing up a lung or shitting through the eye of a needle, you wouldn’t give grandma a big hug and a kiss just because it’s not COVID, you’d stay at home anyway.
Sorry, I don’t buy your idea that we had a chance to “stop it in its tracks”. Even if we had a coordinated world wide lockdown that everyone abided by, it still would remain dormant in non symptomatic carriers or animal populations. COVID would just be waiting for us to unlock and it’ll be back just as it was.
You then have to factor in that not everyone can lockdown. We still need the workers that produce our water and power, our food workers, our bin men and sewage workers, all the people that actually keep our countries running. A full lockdown is an impossibility.
Many people have the false impression that lockdowns were “to stop covid”. They weren’t, they were for bringing pressure off of over crowded hospitals.
We are both adults here, right? I think you can handle being told you didn’t think it through. I’m not going to use kid-gloves with you and lie to you to serve your ego.
you are still going on implying that COVID is the same as the flu or a cold. The flu has never altered my heartbeat rhythms for years after.
You are still ascribing to the false dichotomy I stated in my comment when you say “not everyone can lock down” absolutely, except tons of people I personally know were still going out on vacations, some knowing they had COVID before flying to their destination.
Just because a full lockdown wouldn’t have 100% wiped out COVID doesn’t mean we should have given up on stopping the spread. It’s not one or the other.
I feel like you are trying to make excuses for endangering the lives of other people so you can not be bored. My Grandfather is buried under 6ft of dirt because of this mentality in Texas. He died needlessly. He was an active man who was writing a novel and was constantly physically active. He had at least 10 years left
A lot of us are not going to forget the actions of our fellow man during the peak of COVID, especially those who lost loved ones needlessly
Ok. A well written argument of your own can make me look like I haven’t thought things through. But if you feel the need to state it additionally for no other reason than I don’t wholly agree with you or because put downs make you feel better or superior, then good for you. This isn’t about my ego, I’m just trying to help you improve your debating skills.
I’m not going to debate long COVID. I don’t doubt it is a real phenomena but this is because the facts around it are far too vague and this means that making serious policy decisions could be foolhardy. There is no real test for long COVID other than a random assortment of ailments that some people get some of and others get none of, supposedly related to a primary COVID infection in a minority of people.
I’m not arguing about people that broke lockdown laws. I’m suggesting that even with maximum possible levels of compliance that COVID can only be slowed, not stopped.
There is a debate to be had about freedom Vs proposed safety but I don’t think we’re going to agree. We’d just be wasting eachothers time and getting upset. Sorry you lost your grandad unexpectedly.
Some times shit things happen and there is no reason. It might make you feel better to blame “other idiots” but that doesn’t change anything.
Anecdotally this statistic is just not right, or the hardships of long covid hits people very differently. Most people I know (hundreds) have had covid several times at this point. I know one person who believes to have long covid in a debilitating way.
I’ve had long COVID symptons (reduced sense of smell, instantly tired, heart going on a gallop for no or not much reason) for 6 to 7 months after my COVID infection, after which point those symptons suddenly cleared up. At the start I did hospital visits to have my heart checked out and everything, but nothing wrong could be found. I have no trouble believing that some people will never recover.
I’m going on 2+ years at this point. Was in the best shape of my life when I was infected. I haven’t been able to properly exercise ever since (without severe repercussions that last several days). My bloodwork, which was previously fantastic, is all over the place now. Outrageously high cholesterol, iron levels, inflammation markers. It’s hard having hope for the future when I don’t see an end in sight.
I hope that you’ll be as fortunate as I was.
I knew something had changed when I was sitting in the living room one Sunday and realized that I could smell the food that I was making in the kitchen oven. I had not had that good a sense of smell since before I had had COVID.
The weekend after that, I did light work in the garden and I could work for hours without issue, while 2 weeks prior I had to stop after half an hour.
I did avoid any strenuous activities as long as I had long COVID, maybe this helped my recovery. I wasn’t going to go on a hiking trip or fight with bushes, if I couldn’t even do a half hour of light work without fainting. I could still do local walks, thanks to my country being as flat as a pancake.
One very big frustration I had, was the feeling of being perceived as an imposter. I was ill, but tests were unable to show anything wrong, as if it was all in my head. But now there’s definite scientific proof that long COVID really is a thing, even when traditional tests show nothing wrong with the patient.
Thanks so much- this give me hope!
Sure, I have no doubt about some people being affected in this way. But the scale that the article is talking about is just absurd, to be honest.
That 10% in the article is people with long COVID, which is not necessarily debilitating. Just having a reduced sense of smell is a symptom of long COVID, but it’s not going to stop a runner from running. I tried looking for statistics and I found that in a USA survey, 26% of people with long COVID, reported significant activity limitations. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7232a3.htm
It’s also all uncharted territory: traditional tests can’t identify long covid and there are still breakthroughs being made to figure out what is actually going on with long COVID. It’ll be some time before it can actually be tested at scale and even if it can be tested, I doubt that this will be done. As the article suggests, it’ll probably be more convenient to try and sweep it under the rug, definitely cheaper.
For now all these statistics are based on external symptoms: people who were diagnosed with COVID (not everyone who had it, was diagnosed), who found that they had long lasting effects (before ending up in statistics, it had to be bad enough for them to seek help) of whom a part has very noticable negative effects (people who did not do much physical activities before, might not even be aware that they can no longer do the physical activities that they didn’t used to do), … So it’s error on top of error, a whole lot of unknowns. The percentages in the doomsday article could be accurate, but without the ability of testing, we’re not going to find out for a bit longer.
That you personally don’t know anyone who has long COVID, does not surprise me. It’s such a vague disease that it’s not a good talking subject, people just carry on as good as they can. Personally I only communicated my struggle with it to people who were affected by my change in behaviour: I cancelled walking trips and I wanted people to know that it was me, not them. And my garden was a shithole, which was also a me issue.
10% does seem crazy high. But it’s also possible that some long covid effects go noticed. Also totally anecdotally, but I heard multiple people say they just don’t feel as fit now doing cardio, myself included. Is it we’re just older or did we get slight lung damage? Or worse, heart damage. Our bodies are really surprisingly sturdy and able to keep up with damage for a long time.
I know 2 people with severe complications from long covid. And I don’t know that many people. So how many around me are living with mild long covid complications and don’t realize it?
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This is why anecdotes are not informative when trying to understand statistics. You almost certainly don’t have a close relationship with hundreds of people that would involve informing you of lingering COVID symptoms nor do you have a random sampling of acquaintances (age, ethnicity, and vaccination status affect how common it is).
https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230526/one-in-ten-people-omicron-long-covid
I mean, fair, but also: if the implication is that vaccination is the key to reducing covid symptoms - no shit? Also, the article you link mentions 10 percent rate of omicron cases leading to long covid (not mentioning how vaccination rates play into it), so…
Assuming I have a 100 close ties (I have significantly more), and just one of these exhibiting publicly that they have long covid seems highly unlikely. According to the below link, 60% of the US population has caught omicron. The probability of only one of my sixty close ties having long covid is ~1.2%. So…
https://www.statnews.com/2022/04/26/with-omicron-nearly-60-percent-in-us-infected-covid/
The correct response to being reminded that anecdotes aren’t data isn’t trying to do more math on your anecdata.
Actual studies measure these rates. Your limited knowledge of your extended acquaintance group means jack shit for whether they’re correct. I only know of a single person in my extended acquaintances who had heart disease. It doesn’t mean that general population statistics on heart disease are wrong, it means some combination of I’m missing information and my sample is biased. Your sample is not random (so multiplying a statistic of the general population against them is not valid) and you don’t actually know who’s experienced long COVID symptoms. Some may have had some and gotten better, some may not even recognize a lingering cough or being more worn out as a symptom, and some may just not feel like it’s necessary to tell you.
Absolutely. Always consider medical statistics based on self reporting with a grain of salt is all I’m saying. Obviously, my back of a napkin maths based on my personal circumstances shouldn’t be used as any kind of evidence on your behalf. This is also why I say it’s based on my own anecdotes.
The people who have experienced long-term effects are extremely vocal online but it’s hard to imagine that it is as common as 1 in 10 given how many people have had covid.
I am extremely curious to see if they find a genotype or something which is an indicator for people being vulnerable to long-covid. It’s possible that it will end up being a similar situation for ME/CFS where we have no specific biological markers which differentiate people who suffer from it (aside from the symptoms).
We have scientific studies so you don’t need to just go with whatever you imagine reality is. Long COVID isn’t necessarily a life altering debilitation, it’s symptoms lasting 3 or more months. Often they clear up, but sometimes they don’t.
I was thinking about a particular study which identifies why some people seem to get long term effects and others don’t. To my knowledge - and from a quick search - that doesn’t seem to exist.
The people who have experienced long-term effects are extremely vocal online but it’s hard to imagine that it is as common as 1 in 10 given how many people have had covid.
I was responding to this.
With regards to that I’d be interested in a meta-analysis similar to this one which manages to account for symptomless, or mild symptom, cases somehow.
The only person I know who got long covid was unvaccinated, not sure if that affects the likelihood in any way of it sticking around.
I had it twice, and the first time it was a fairly simple thing that went over quickly and the second was a really bad flu-like deal. Though my A/C was out in summertime so it could have just been because of the 90 degree heat in my house or something, idk.
Same, I know absolutely zero people who have gotten long COVID. My brother had it kinda mess him up with fatigue for a few months but he’s perfectly fine now.
At the school I work at, not 1 teacher uses masks in classes / meetings. Only if they suspect they have covid or the flu.
Many times, I see them sniffling (or with other signs of flu / cold) and they are in closed spaces without any mask.
Makes my blood fucking boil.
Mostly because I keep hearing them criticizing students, for how uneducated and stupid they are, but then they are the ones setting these examples.
Smh
People can sniffle plenty and not have the flu or another illness. Once you have become an adult, and pay attention, it is really easy to tell the difference. I frequently get allergic response to various things. Even when medicated, there is still a slow trickle.
Maybe you should trust people, he probably knows of if it is allergies or the flu more than you do.
I guess what you’re saying makes sense. But some of those times, they complained about headaches and fever. I mean, it is easy to spot when someone is actually sick vs. someone has allergies. Regardless, in my country, it is not the “season” of allergies.
You see teachers call kids stupid?
Almost every single day.
They complain about students, but then I see them doing the same shit.
I’m no musician, writer, scientist or athlete. I’m just a regular ole shitbag who has worked far too hard to make something of his life while the economy ruined the value of what i worked for and life has gone nothing but backwards.
The fuck should i care what covid does to this shithole.
The point of these articles is a call to action, not a request of sympathy.
People seem to have reached their covid limit out here in the real world though.
